What is Blasphemy?
Blasphemy, in its literal meanings, is defined as a behaviour or language expressing disrespect for God or for something sacred
The issue of blasphemy, highlighted again by the recent banning of certain websites in Pakistan, has caught the attention of everyone again, through debates on media. I also read and heard different versions of thought on the issues of blasphemy. While due to the rapid transmission of the message throughout the country, and due to pressure generated by the perceived angry reaction( read road demonstrations resulting in injuries, burning , destruction and looting) of the people, authorities were keen to ban the sites within a few hours.
On the other side, it also gave birth to a serious question in my mind that ‘what the hell is blasphemy’ indeed?
As an ordinary Muslim, I may not be an authority to speak on Islam,(although Islam never limited or restricted opinion formation , to any ‘authority’), still the concept of blasphemy, as it is practiced in Pakistan at least, seems skewed, lacking commonsense and dare I say quite the opposite to what we learn as Muslims were the teachings of the prophet whose very honour we are trying to protect. Doesn’t that sound how we define the word ‘hypocricy’?
With our outrageous behaviour of killing, injuring, looting and burning do not we defile what the Prophet termed as sacred for Muslims and human beings? And thus by not listening to what he commanded do we not commit blasphemy?
It is saddening ( and not surprisingly lacking common sense) that, where the blasphemy laws deal with the cases such as Reciting prayers in a language other than Arabic (Indonesia); being alone with persons of the opposite sex who are not blood relatives; practicing yoga (Malaysia); watching a film or listening to music (Somalia); wearing make-up on television (Iran); and touching a Quran or touching something that has touched a Quran because the individuals were not Muslim (Nigeria), it shuts its eyes to what the life of the Prophet exemplifies. Yes that is his Sunnah.
While speaking about the sacredness of the Islamic beliefs and practices, how can the self styled and self declared saviours of the Islamic customs just ignore what the prophet had made sure to convey to them by asking it thrice in his last address that ‘have I conveyed the message of Allah to you?’
He laid out clearly as to what is sacred to the believers, when he said, “Allah, the Blessed, the Supreme, has made your blood, your property and your honor as sacred as this day of yours in this town of yours, in this month of yours (and such protection cannot be slighted) except rightfully.”
And then he alarmed that ‘do not revert to disbelief after me by cutting the necks of each other.‘
Where do we stand today in the light of Prophet’s message?
Is the blood, property and human dignity and honour, any matter of concern for us? Does anyone really deem these as sacred?
If we look around ourselves, what we see rampant around us is hunger, poverty, injustice, and people deprived of their rights. Despite seeing it all around us every day, did anyone ever take out a procession against the demeaning and dehumaising levels of poverty that more than 70% of us live in?
The crux and thrust of the message of Islam revolves around the significance of the right of the human beings. The objectives of the prophet was the conveyance of the divine messages, reform of society and the liberation of man from the clutches of perversion, crime and moral decay and taking them out from the depths of ignorance of their being. Their objective was to free him from the evils of tyrants and oppressors and to wean them off backwardness and superstition.
But we will still see around us that the touching of Quran by a non Muslim is an issue of blasphemy and dying of hunger is not. We still place the pages of Quran at the highest place in our homes but completely ignore the message it proclaims.
The message of God as the prophet conveyed is that Islam is the synonym for peace. Peace, I repeat the word. Islam stands for the justice. It stands against the discrimination of any kind and oppression and harassment of the weak. If anything it stands for is then it is these underlying principles, revitalizing the human dignity and a just society. A path for human beings that help them form a just society, enhancing life on earth and, making use of its resources and materials ( in moderation and as a trust) and using human and intellectual energies for the benefit of other humans.
Islam is about just distribution and use of resources equitably to all members of society with a view to nip in the bud the formation of any category of economic or social classes. This was the message of the Prophet and the principles of Islam in its human and social dimensions.
What was the message the Prophet conveyed to Meccan woman when he went to see how she was? The woman who used to throw garbage on him daily, when she was not there to through the dirt on him one day?
What did he mean when he told the people to choose for their brothers the same what they like for themselves?
Do we have the moral nerve to give the people what we like for ourselves? Is not the desecration of the teachings and orders of the God and prophet, not following these teachings the blasphemy then?
He asked his people thrice whether he conveyed His message.
Why are we silent then? Silent in practice… Do we still not know what is sacred? Or we are not his people?
We are indeed all blasphemers. And those demonstrating to protect his honour, who defile and desecrate his teachings by their very acts of arson and pillaging, while completely ignoring his message against poverty, injustice and human misery are the biggest blasphemers of us all.
This post was submitted by Shaista Kazmi & Azhar Aslam.
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What is Blasphemy?
A National Shame: LAHORE, July 22: The Lahore High Court ordered on Thursday that a mentally ill woman who had been under detention without trial for 14 years be immediately released. She faced blasphemy charges but police never presented any evidence against her in the court. Zaibun Nisa was arrested after registration of a case on Oct 26, 1996, in Sihala against ‘unknown people’ on the complaint of local cleric Qari Hafeez. Initially she was kept in Rawalpindi’s Adayala jail, then brought to the Kot Lakhpat prison in Lahore and later admitted to a mental hospital. Local lawyer Aftab Ahmad Bajwa filed a petition for her release, saying she had been implicated in the case only to defuse public pressure. Mentally ill woman spends 14 years in detention By Our Staff Reporter Friday, 23 Jul, 2010 http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-l...
execution period... cases took years to get settled! 1.52 million cases pending in courts countrywide Monday, February 01, 2010 http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2010...\story_1-2-2010_pg1_6
* 18,312 cases in SC, 110,110 in LHC, 29,414 in SHC, 14,522 in PHC, 4,893 in BHC By Masood Rehman
ISLAMABAD: As many as 1.52 million cases were pending in the country’s courts until January 15, 2010, a number that could swell due to a shortage of judges in both the superior and subordinate judiciaries. After the imposition of the National Judicial Policy (NJP) on June 1, 2009, the Supreme Court has been able to reduce its backlog of cases from 19,055 to 18,312, until January 15 this year.
The Judicial System of Pakistan by Dr Faqir Hussain Registrar, Supreme Court of Pakistan http://pklegal.org/resources/JUDICIAL_SYSTEM_OF_PA...
Hum tu khay kay thak gay that in a hypocrite Islamic society there is no place for blasphemy law but people like you(intellectual hypocrite) need tragic examples like that.
That is why I always say first bring positive social reforms in distorted society like ours and then adopt or implement Islamic principles as per mentioned in Quran and sunnah.
Now you can sense the intensity of brutality of Muslim minds behind usage of such laws.
Pls pls dont say it is not fault of Islam that humans do not follow like that.
Islam is not such concept of life which can be placed in crystal ball and protected under armed kiiler guards so that it cant be touched by common people as normal living style.
Nazia says: - July 23, 2010 at 10:25 pm Hum tu khay kay thak gay that in a hypocrite Islamic society there is no place for blasphemy law but people like you(intellectual hypocrite) need tragic examples like that. Now you can sense the intensity of brutality of Muslim minds behind usage of such laws.
=================
What about this mentality: BARELY days after the Punjab chief minister was caught playing to the Taliban gallery, another high official from the province is in the spotlight for all the wrong reasons. This time, Lahore High Court Chief Justice Khawaja Mohammad Sharif has sparked outrage for reportedly saying that Hindus were responsible for financing acts of terrorism in Pakistan. REFERENCE: Tactless remarks Dawn Editorial Thursday, 18 Mar, 2010 http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-l...
Your link is again a solid proof of my claim that blasphemy or islamic laws shouldn't allowed on the basis of mental approach of executives or ruling class but after improving the vision of common people through social reforms and educating them.
You see it was an executive order that made a law that parliamentarian should be at least having graduate BA degree.
Here strong groups again misused this amendment by promoting culture of forgery in all scale.
if general naqvi made such move in which voters should be graduate before casting votes, then you would have seen different situation in favor of common people.
But all rules and previliges tend to be molded in favor of influential people.
What is Blasphemy?
یہ ایسا ڈرامہ تھا کہ ججوں سمیت کسی کا دھیان اس بات پر ہی نہیں گیا کہ پھینکے جانے والے اسلامی جمہوریہ پاکستان کے آئین کی کتاب میں بھی اللہ کا نام موجود ہے۔
ویلکم ٹو کورٹ نمبر ون!
وسعت اللہ خان
بی بی سی اردو ڈاٹ کام، اسلام آباد
آخری وقت اشاعت: بدھ 21 جولائ 2010 , 16:20 GMT 21:20 PST
Http://Www.Bbc. Co.Uk/Urdu/ Pakistan/ 2010/07/100721_ Wusat_analysis. Shtml
ویلکم ٹو کورٹ نمبر ون!
وسعت اللہ خان
بی بی سی اردو ڈاٹ کام، اسلام آباد
آخری وقت اشاعت: بدھ 21 جولائ 2010 , 16:20 GMT 21:20 PST
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2010/07/100721_...
A1
I have read thoroughly about seeling of prophet, finality of prophethood and khatam nabwat concept long time ago.
I have read some of literature of qadiyani faith too in this regard.
So as teenager I believed what what scholars/mullah and our provided literature said about qadiaynai as they left no choice for people to give spaces to other concepts.
Then I saw hatred literature against community whom you and your state declared non muslims officially.
Then I observed my people and my army who had no right to interfere in religious affairs started persecution of this community.
I also watched my dominating sect started killing them wherever got opportunity.
On the other hand this community stand on their principle without killing other non muslim from their point of view.it is not matter of thousands but millions who although deny my basic faith but want to live with same tag as I do without disturbing the faith of majority.
Along with this I witnessed brutal usage of blasphemy law which even bring shia sunni against each other.
Then I saw the wrong supremacy of whabi group in our majority areas.
This is same group which influenced Bhutto to plant this hatred culture in our secular type state.
Now in latest update I heard that these clerics allowed ladies to have male chauffeurs after breast feeding them for showing maternity sentiments to male adults.
oh my God where the hell I should go to kill these stupids who are owner of our holy places
Trust me If I have to live in such circumstances I would take no time to declare my self as non Muslim and get out of this filthy concept of maternity as muslim woman.Thanks to Allah that I brought up in Pakistan where my surroundings help me to draw my belief as per my birth right and from my knowledge based on my studies and practice.
So please who are interfering in your faith but dont force me to indulge in hate business in religion matters.
Oh yes the day any one try to impose religion on me by force then I would strongly react with my uphold power granted to me by almighty God.
Aone
What I can comment on your irregular thoughts.
I have simply replied you my observation wihtout quoting googles search engines and without showing heavy references of quran and hadith.
I have replied you many times and in simple way that I wouldn't say any body non Muslim if either he is qadiyani or consider Hazrat Ali as God(if he/she wants to be identified as Muslim) even people would call me with names.
You want to say them non Muslims then it is your choice or part of faith but then prove also that you are real muslim not an opportunist who live on pick and drop choices in Islam.
I haven't seen any kind of islamic society around me nor pious people who pass their lives under Islamic teachings and if you people would keep me in fantasy world of old past then I deny to live in this world.
I watch on daily basis what is actually going on around me in name of Islam.
Now you want to generalize my statement for christian and buddahist as per your blockhead not mine.
Read this extract from (Bible, Matthew 1:18-21)
This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.
Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.
But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.
She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins."
So in many European countries since many centuries, particularly Catholic ones, illegitimate births were first and foremost a matter for the church. The church and charitable institutions established several large ORPHANAGES in major cities where such kids were accepted without any hesitation.
In this particular background I gave you example of presence of Lady willington hospital in lahore.
But your life is to make confusion on other practical.
When you were not born my mother and aunts have made such kind of researches as social worker and doctors that what were real reasons of hypocrisy in islamic society.
we brought up in such environment where such discussions and reasearch are discussed as normal disucssion in home .There fore I dont need to die to find references to prove my points which I extract from my real experinces and my family members too.
So I again repeat the followers of Christianity and buddha don't claim their association with religion and religious icons as we Muslims do in our hypocrite life.
How poor your observation is about haqooq Allah and Haqoq ul abad.
Tehjad prayer is between you and Allah and no way can be matched with following the example of marrying to widow and desperate desire of male son in Muslim society.
Allah dont need your five times head on collision on floor or your full day hunger in the form of fast.He has no bank in which he can place your zakat but God's all orders in the form of obligation indirectly links with haqooq ul abad and living with fear of God all the time.
You say your all obligation to get serenity of your heart and soul under some superior power which can at least give you peace of mind.
Then comes His Prophet.So those people who declare to be strong followers of Prophet should copy his life styles.
He obeyed divine laws as Allah wanted to show you that people should follow these acts but here lovers like you run away from live examples of Prophet and opt for those styles which suit you.
I am still stick to my basic faith as born a Muslim and teaching which was taught to us since our childhood as a muslim child in any Muslim family.
Beyond this I have no time to create tension around me on the name of religious conflicts.
Nazia: Actually i have been saying the same thing since the start. I stand by the quotes on the Holy Prophet (PBUH) i posted. And I think that i have the right to consider someone who does not believe in the finality of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) & one God as a non-muslim.
You say one thing and than another just to make a point. Now make a decision. What is it? Do Buddhists & Christians strongly follow their prophets or have they moved away from religion? Which one is it?
If you consider those that worship humans as gods as muslims too than you need to seriously take a look at your believes. If i start claiming that i am Chinese no one is going to accept it. I can claim all i want. The chinese are not going to say that ok we don't have any right to say he is not a Chinese so if he says he is a Chinese than he is a Chinese. This is what in essence you are saying. Was the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) wrong too in declaring non-believers as kaafir?
One advice - when you are discussing ANY Topic, a very basic criteria is to know something about it. If i go and debate on Einstein's theory of relativity it will help if i go and study his work first instead of just passing uneducated comments. Similarly when i am discussing Islam, it is necessary that i base my opinion on the Quran & Hadith from which the religion is derived. You say i don't have time to study the Quran & Hadith & than you have to give your opinions on Islam too. Utter stupidity.
And go and look the meaning of the word Orphanage in a dictionary. You don't think there is any difference between an orphan and a bastard?
Nazia: And marrying widows does not fall in the category of huqooq-ul-ibad. Everyone is absolutely free in choosing their spouses - whoever they want to spend their life with. There is absolutely no obligation in Islam to marry a widow instead of a virgin or younger woman.
Please don't invent injunctions yourself. I am absolutely certain that if there were any such injunction in Islam people like you would be crying foul that Islam is such an unfair religion that it does not even allow one the freedom to chose one's spouse.
A1
marrying to widow surely comes in haqqoq ulabad when state remain in war situation for more than 9 years.
This is high time to follow this suunah.
To what kind of injunction you are pointing out.
We live with two kinds of injunctions one is judicial injunction which our state defined when it see the mishandling of Islamic laws.
e.g
As done in 2nd marriage case that if first wife wouldn't give permission husband can put behind bar and marriage can be dissolved.
Or now change in Khulla right through local nazim is another kind of judical injunction implanted in our system.
From my point of view you can marry 4 beautiful virgin at a time as this is your religious right granted to you by your past generation which like you claim to be follower of Mohammed(pbuh) who married to widows and divorcees.
If you have any problem regarding search of beautiful girls I can take you in such Pakistan homes where parents of unwanted girls are ready to marry their daughters to any settled men of any age group.
So it is not matter what is available to you and what is your desire but when you claim that you are strong followers of Sunnah and Allah's order and under this powerful faith you start throwing people out of your fixed boundaries then follow sunnah at all costs as it is divines' order to His man kind.
One thing more bastard in many versions of bible are used for those kids who had come through mix breed specially from christian and Jews marriage or illicit relation.
So this term might be concocted in history when Christians clerics and Jews were strongly stood against each other
Nazia: What the hell are you saying? I cannot even consider someone who is worshiping human beings a non-muslim now? Why believe in anything than.
Huqooq-ul-Ebad is the right i have towards my parents, my wife, my relatives etc. I have obligations towards my parents - which if i do not follow i will be punished for. There is no obligation in Islam that one HAS to marry a widow & one will get punished if he doesn't. You will get the reward for it if you do but you won't get punished if you don't. So don't create your own logic over everything.
And your example shows just how closed minded the Christian religion was that even marriage to a jew was not recognized & children from such a marriage were considered bastards. And you want people to believe that Christians were openly accepting children born out of wedlock because of their religious teachings.
I think you should start a new religion - you have just created new injunctions for Muslims & Christians - why not create a new religion. You can issue your own commandments that marrying widows is compulsory on every follower & every one can be a follower - there are no set of believes - you can believe in 1 god, 2 gods, 10 gods or a 100 gods. There will only be one requirement - studying books & learning from history is not allowed. All opinions & injunctions must be uneducated & created out of thin air. Evidence is not required. Facts can be created wherever necessary to support your argument.
Aone
Your impression imprint that you are a man but your expression is not more than a quarrelsome woman who is all time ready to fight others for keeping her free time as much good as possible.
So first help me what is your real status in this world then I would reply you in better way.
Who tell you I would believe what people say to me about their variety of faith.But I want to give them space so that they would feel no resistance to pass their life as per their faith.
We should put compulsions and restrictions on our acts as per our faith and not peep on others to criticize and hit their terms of belief.Resistance and restrictions on any community wouldn't stop its association with its faith.It would surely reveal our weakness in front of them as harassment is some kind of hidden fear of oppressor which he/she poses to threat weak class as suppressor and people as minority start hating you to the core of their heart.
So war/conflicts whether psychological or physcial cant be won unless you win heart and minds of public.
God forbid If I even think of creating new religion or faith.It have been enough created to spread confusion in young minds so if I even think it God would shorten my life as much as possible.
Christians have more old legacy than Islam and had very bad patches in the form of burning women as evil or persecution of blacks and jews through the hands of whites ,child abuses in churches etc but they are known to kept their illegitimate children under religious boundary throughout.These orphanages were meant for those illegitimate kids .Please do some research in this way on my provided points.
Nazia: Meaning of Orphanage: "A public institution for the care and protection of children without parents".
Why would bastard children be placed there - they have both their parents - and according to you Christian society accepts them with open arms. Could it be that they were shunned by society & couldn't live normal lives in the real world? Or that their parents were ashamed of accepting them? And if they are so openly accepted than why do you use the word 'illegitimate'?
But to hell with common sense, logic & historical facts - if they do not fit in with Nazia Khala's theories than they don't matter. This is the 3rd commandment of Nazia Khala's new religion. The 1st is that logic & knowledge have no place in forming ones opinion. The 2nd is that ALL men must marry widows.
A1
who is forcing you to believe on my commons sense as we have nothing common to share and senses can be cursed by senseless curses which are in your inbuilt habit.
Decent civilization always uses appropriate terms for covering their weak areas and characters therefore in religious circle these bastard are protected under the name of orphans.
I never ever think that Muslim men prefer to marry widows and divorcees as I have seen practical demonstration of majority and concluded that Prophet life style is only used as projection and a Muslim person cant think of adopting His life patterns on the basis of his strong weaknesses as a male of hypocrite society.
I only ask such queries to those people who portray to be lover of Holy PROPHET AND his SUUNAH.
You know Holy Prophet preached concept of tauheed and social norms as were done by last many Prophets.But he was distinguished by few of his qualities under divine's instructions, than other Prophets.
FEW of his acts were,preferring marry widows and divorcees , love for daughters and pardon for his enemies.
By the way those who claim to be true follower of his suunah are always miles away of his such marked distinctions which were one of difficult and impossible act as being strong man of any society.
So either dont claim on hollow basis that you are follower of suunah and consider your self as normal born Muslim who would avail all best opportunity around you as and where basis .
It would more suit you and I wouldn't ask you such demand which is not in range of true Muslim when he is young ,strong and dominant in his decisions.
A1
No way I am presenting you massive generalization of communities but I am only pin pointing followers of Prophets of each faith.
I know very well that majority Japanese and pacific Asian people have taken them away from basic religion and mold their life styles as per demand of state.They never pose to be religious as we Muslim majority show it strongly to impress each other.
We Muslims always claim to be followers of Prophet and obedient of Allah.Actually it is not like that .We even speak lies to our soul.
Read carefully I am totally to the point but in my opinion social factors are more dominant but you are insisting me to follow the orders of Quran and Hidith at all costs.
Now if I give importance to your point of view then you ignore the example of Prophet of marrying divorcees and widows and consider it as divine's orders.
So tell me why this divine order is not fit for common muslims or do you think Allah did all this only for decorative purpose.
Lets leave this young bride issue and take another and it is importance of male child .
Allah had clearly taken male heirs from Prophet .His strong hadith of educating three daughters is an absolute example of giving importance to female child and practical too.It has already been proved that daughters are more loving and supporting toward parents if they are treated in good manners .
But see all the laws of inheritance favors male child.male child is still considered weakness of Muslim community They are popular for having multiple marriages for getting son or brigade of sons to show their supremacy to others.
Allah knew well that son was considered as symbol of proud in any society but He denied this blessing to His apostle of revolution just setting an example like foundation stone beofre building an Islamic society but majority Muslim community denied and still denying this hint of divine too. You are ALSO avoiding that Holy Prophet didnt set example of marrying divorces for his followers.
I think One lakh and 24 thousand Prophets have been sent to people of Asia and Africa but one can see the stubbornness of this generation that they are in need of more Prophets to understand the orders of God in more explicit form.
I dont say that christian and Muslim consider HAZRAT ESSA as an illegitimate child but he and his mother faced such kind of charges from their surroundings.
See the difference christian community as it accepts the presence of children who came into world wihtout wedlock.Tell me a single hadith, or Koranic verse or any ijthaid concept on the existence of that kind of child in our society.Such kids were also part of all kind of Islamic society since long time but what is their social and religious status nobody knows.
I am insisting you first create an ideal or close to ideal islamic society and then mark the division who is Muslim or who is not Muslim.This is the disturbance and injustice in Islamic society that give ways new faiths to get roots in any system.
You are just tagging some community with non Muslim using power of Quran and hadith because they are denying the hypocrisy of dominant sects.
I am living in this society which claim to Muslim and follower of Sunnah but in their practical lives I cant see even glimpses of such path which we read in quran and sunnah.
As I consider myself part of this hypocrite society where sons are preferred on daughters, widows and orphans are mistreated, people are cheated/killed on the name of religion and beheading others for showing power of particular faith, that is why indecisive in my opinions that who is Muslim or who is not.
I Give you another example in creation of talibans.it is same Pak army and its propaganda unit which once declared these Taliban as solders of Allah now this is same army its ISPR and its media team who are considering them fake warriors of Asia or considering them serious threat of Islam.
So this time you rethink that as wind is blowing against qadyinais so they are non muslim when ever state and maullah need them they would be consider Muslims within short period of time.
Nazia: Examples of your massive & mostly incorrect generalizations:
1. “Budhhaism and Christianity strongly follow the life styles of their prophet” - This is a laughable claim to which even Christians and Buddhists wouldn't agree. And in your own post you are now saying the complete opposite that they have moved away from religion. Please stick with one opinion. Don't keep changing the argument just to keep on arguing.
2. "Christians believing that Christ is son of God and hazrat Mariam as single mother always given proper place to illegitimate child and single mothers in their society" - The 2nd part is absolutely not true. Acceptance of single mothers is recent & only in developed western countries - not true at all of all christian communities. It corresponds with them moving away from religion & accepting living together without marriage as acceptable.
3. "we are least bothered nation about Hygienic conditions even around our religious places" - Cannot generalize about all muslims that they are unclean. And this isn't because we are muslims or non-muslims. Have you been to India?
I am not forcing you to follow anything. You can believe whatever you want to. And that is what Allah says in the Quran that there is no compulsion in religion - no one can force their believes over anyone.
You have to make a distinction between compulsory orders & something that is considered better. There is absolutely no orders by the Prophet for all muslims to marry widows or older women - If some muslim men takes a widow as wife and takes care of her and any children she has, he will get his reward from Allah. But it is not an obligation.
This is the same as say Namaz-e-Tahajjud. The holy prophet used to stay up all night & pray. Tahajjud Prayers were compulsory on the Prophet (PBUH). But they have not been made compulsory on the Ummah. Whoever wants to pray will get the reward for it but there is no compulsion.
Please clear this in your mind and don't invent injunctions in your own mind to suit your own desires.
Have you read the story of Hazrat Eesa in the Quran? This is what it says - when the people came to Hazrat Maryam & said to her that why have you done such a bad thing, & your parents were respectable people, she pointed towards the child. They said why are you pointing towards him, he is just a child. Than the child spoke up and said i have been sent down by God. So Hazrat Eesa was given miracles & it wasn't like he wasn't accepted in his community & treated as an illegitimate child. The miracles proved to the people that he had been sent down by God.
So please don't create logics in your own head & then create facts that illegitimate children have always been accepted in Christian communities. This is absolutely not true.
Since you have such a problem with Islamic teachings, please tell me where in the Bible does it encourage society to accept illegitimate children & accepts having sexual relations outside of wedlock? Please do give me references. I am sure you will try a google search on this but you will end up with nothing because you are just creating facts out of thin air to support your logic.
What hypocrisy of the majority sect are the Ahmedis denying? The only thing they are denying is the finality of the Holy Prophet (PBUH). Is this is hypocrisy to you? Tell me one thing - what are your religions beliefs based on? On the Quran & Hadith or just whatever comes in your mind & you think is right? I think your beliefs on religion are more in line with an agnostic.
My considering them Non-Muslims has nothing to do with the opinions of the Pakistani state. If the state declares them muslims, i will still consider them non-muslims. That is my belief. For your information Ahmedis don't have any love lost for us either. They think that whoever doesn't believe in mirza ghulam ahmed is a deviant & a non-muslim.
This is the third time i am asking this - Please do answer. Do you also consider the sect that worships Hazrat Ali as God as muslims too? Because they do call themselves muslim? So as per your logic we should have no right to call them non-muslims either. And we should wait for the creation of a perfect muslim state before we can consider them non-muslims. Until then whoever tom dick and harry comes up and says i am a muslim or claims prophethood we should just accept him or her. This is your senseless logic.
Al,
Don't take Khala Nazia seriously. Poor lady has been neglected in her circles and she doesn't know cooking, so let her cook something even if its on the computer...
She knows it all and has to bud-in in every conversation.
Seriously this kind of personality makes those "khalaz" who start the fire in any family in the neigborhood, because they want to be felt important so they pretend that they know it all.
Chuotto
you dont miss a chance to favour your uncles on my comments.
Who told you to interfere in elders matter or wasting time on my comments.
Your observation on my activities is as poor as your pathetic comment.
I am not budding in any discussion but you cant leave your bad habits of bugging all the time specially in aunty culture.
One thing I told you as a little advice that importance is created in any circle through respect of each other ,mutual help in difficult times and caring attitude.By igniting other's house or making fire would only develop hate and distance not importance of any one.
Aone
Your 2nd para is reply of my point.
First you setup hate culture for a group by calling them non Muslims.The majority sects controlling Pakistan never limited their efforts upto declaration but consistent process of persecution is going on and result is Lahore massacre.
Now you all make sad faces that your are not in favour of this but on the other side we all know that harassment is blunt tool for changing the faith of any community.
You have a strong right to say qadiaynis are not Muslims as your state officially declared it but other state like India UK ,Canada etc they are put in category of Muslims as this is personal choice of this community.
If some group or individual separates them selves on issues of khatam ul nubwat which only surrounds the personality of Prophet,then let the matter in the court of Allah as this way of preaching has attracted not thousands but millions and interesting thing is majority belong to educated backgrounds.
Whether you say my religious concept is weak or convicted but my little brain cant accept this logic that what is purpose of deadly fight with any community on the basis of Prophet and Prophecy issues.
I cant digest the orders of saudis and related sects who always violently act to prove their words.
I am highly against harassment in religious matters which is prominent feature in our politics that is why I have soft corner for ahmeadiyas who all time are harassed in our so called Islamic society.
I would surely favour your so called Islamic stance if you prove that Pakistan is an ideal islamic state as per exact teaching of Prophet and orders of Allah.
Now something about your enlighten vision about marrying to young girls.
Holy prophet could have married to young and beautiful ladies which he was repeatedly offered by his people again and again during his stay in Mecca and medina.
The Holy Prophet married hazrat Khadija, a widow 40 years of age, when he was 25 years of age. They were happily married until she passed away at the age of 65. They set the best example for others to emulate in married life.
On the other hand Polygamy was practiced in Arabia at that time and almost all picked young and beautiful but the Prophet Muhammad remained monogamous all these years and set the best example for those who wish to remain monogamous.
The wives of the beloved Prophet were either widows, divorcees or captives of war, except for hazrat Aisha who was the only virgin he married.
Some of the women he married were widows of his sahaba who had laid down their lives for the sake of Islam.
But he set different examples as a leader of islam to pick and choose divorces, widows and older ladies too.
Asas a Prophet he acted against normal norms which you say is inherent behaviour of men and universally accepted as such.
On the other hand followers of Budhhaism and Christianity strongly follow the life styles of their propheta.
The Buddhist system of insight and meditation practice is not believed to have been revealed divinely, but by the understanding of the true nature of the mind, which must be discovered by personally treading a spiritual path guided by the Buddha's teachings.
This is on same principle which Prophet followed that all
teachings should not be accepted unless they are borne out by our experience not because of inherent attitude of powerful men of any community.
Now about the Christians I cant go to thousand year back history but just try to dig the reason that why in British rules lady willington hospital was made in lahore and we muslim called it as harm dai dan haspathal.
My mother in his student time made full thesis and research on this hospital that christian community for last hundred year was convinced that they have to secure newborns(no matter which religion they belong) who come into world due to illegitimate relation of adults because this was same charge which was put on their PROPHET.
So I think you are professional dodger who are not interested to understand the simple philosophy of religious belief that one has to follow the life styles of his Prophet as per his capacity instead of proudly claiming the universal habits of men as normal trait.
Nazia: You don't have an answer to anything. You just want to debate endlessly. There are two issues that you raised:
First, you said that you can find many people who have adverse comments about Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) & so the favorable quotes i posted don't mean anything. And to you these adverse comments were 'well-researched'. Go & re-read what you wrote & than either stick with your point of view or accept that you are wrong.
You can believe whoever you want to believe about our Prophet (PBUH) & any 'well-researched' account. I will base my religion on the Quran & Hadith. If you think people calling our Prophet (PBUH) names have done research on it, that is your choice. Your comment was not an answer to what i had written.
Second, i have every right to consider Ahmedi's non-muslims. This has nothing to do with the violence committed against their community so please don't give me that crap justification. Our Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) showed us the right path from the wrong one. Would you nauzubillah even start blaming him for spreading hatred because he was calling those who did not believe in him kaafir? Please don't give these stupid justifications. There is a LOT OF DIFFERENCE between considering someone Muslim or not & going & murdering someone in cold bold because of their believes.
And by the same logic please do answer my question. Would you also consider the sect that worships Hazrat Ali as muslims too? Because by the logic you are following, you certainly should because they call themselves muslim.
I am not arguing anywhere about what Pakistani state is like. No where did i say that Pakistan is an Islamic state. So don't take the discussion in another direction.
Regarding the Prophets marriages, they were divinely ordained. He married more than 4 times which is not permitted for any Muslim man. So you cannot declare everything as an Islamic Injunction. I am not saying Islam teaches us to marry young woman. I am only saying that men prefer younger women to older ones & that is true everywhere in the world. And Islam does not command men anywhere to prefer older women to younger ones. Please don't invent religious injunctions.
For your information, Christians & Muslims alike believe that Christ came into this world through a miracle of God. We don't believe that he was an illegitimate child so there is absolutely no relation whatsoever between his birth & between children born outside of wedlock.
It is only now that in western societies this has become acceptable. This was not so a generation ago. And this cultural change has corresponded with a decline in religiosity amongst their population. It is not because of Christianity but despite it.
Christian teachings just like Islam forbid any physical relationship outside of marriage. And neither Islam nor Christianity teaches us to kill a child born outside of wedlock so your point is meaningless.
In the west, homosexuality is slowly becoming acceptable too. Will you link that with Christian teachings too? What about christians living in Pakistan & India? Are children born outside of marriage & homosexuality tolerated by them as well?
Please don't link cultural issues with religious ones.
You say: "Budhhaism and Christianity strongly follow the life styles of their prophet". Even Christians & Buddhists will not agree with you.
Just answer one question: WHICH WORLD DO YOU LIVE IN? Or do you just want to make up facts to make your point that all the problems are with Muslims only?
And please study some history before making massive generalizations about entire communities - communities that each have over a billion followers.
Abay Need Hakim ..I never embraced Modudi's teachings because he is as potty mouth as Shias while cursing Companions of Prophet(SaW). How can I tolerate such person?
Awan Idiot, like I said everyone is kafir;
fatwa, deobandi kafir, brelvi kafir, ahle hadith kafir, kuttay, wahabi کافر
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X01htQUvKcQ
Teeth: Why are my comments on this topic being blocked? I haven't written anything objectionable.
And there is some error in your site because my comment section opened with Aamir Mughals particulars already filled in including his email address.
LOL:)
Yesterday somebody typed "hjyjhj" and used my ID. Could be Blackwater!
A1
It is your virtual association with Mughal that is showing its colours like that in TMBLOG.I have already told you that he is your lost brother now it is going to prove now.
Nazia says: - July 3, 2010 at 12:26 am A1 It is your virtual association with Mughal that is showing its colours like that in TMBLOG.I have already told you that he is your lost brother now it is going to prove now.
=============
How come I am involved in your debate. By the way I am virtual at all, I am very much real.
No this is a yahoodi conspiracy. Just confirmed it with Zaid Hamid. RAW/CIA/MOSSAD & KFC are behind this.
Either that or Aamir Mughal is trying to slowly take over this blog.
mughal
You have some quality of virtuousness other wise how come your name is appearing on the addres of Aone who himself is afraid of facing the world with his real identity.
That uniqueness has put you in this debate otherwise my name could have been appeared on other participant's address.
Nazia: Make one argument & then stick with it. This is what you said to which i had given my reply:
"IT wont take too much time to get the comments of top non Muslim scholars/leaders who spoke against Prophet and Quran.Their all observations are based on thorough research.I am not in position to quote even few of them as it would generate heat in the debate and that is not my aim. You are Muslim so you picked those which touch your soul and faith."
You said that one can easily find adverse comments against our Prophet(PBUH) & that these "observations are based on thorough research". If you are willing to believe the detractors of our Prophet (PBUH) & believe in their "thoroughly researched" opinions that is your choice. That does not prove anything & neither is an answer to the point i was making.
Like i said the true sign of a persons greatness is when even your detractors admit to your qualities & to your greatness.
Please read through history & than make broad statements that only muslims lack true leadership qualities & muslims are always the ones creating problems.
I don't think Islam is in any danger. Muslims may be so because we have deviated from the right path. And please don't lump Ahmedis with muslim sects. Tomorrow if someone else comes and claims prophethood would you also accept his followers as muslims? Whatever many differences we have created between us but all muslims agree on the finality of the Prophet (PBUH).
Your other observations that we do not follow his path, have nothing to do with your earlier arguments. If people do not follow Islam, than Islam is not the problem.
And if there are problems in muslim countries that is not because of Islam or us being muslims. Most of the problems are political in nature. If the people of the middle east followed Buddhism do you think there wouldn't be the same problems there? The US wouldn't encourage & engineer monarchies & dictatorships to control the region & its oil wealth? Israel wouldn't occupy Palestinian lands? The Saudi/Egyptian/Jordanian/Syrian monarchies & dictatorships would be benign & peace loving & respectful of the rule of law & human rights?
Most of these problems things have nothing to do with the religion the people of the region follow. Look at the wars fought in the last 100 years & tell me how many were launched by muslims or by muslim countries. Than come & tell me that the problem is with Islam.
And i don't know why you are obsessed with marrying widows. Islam does not command us to marry widows. It is not an order that all of us have to follow. Islam just removed the taboo associated with it. All of the Prophet's wives weren't widows. And all men cannot possibly marry widows either.
A1
Before replying any person I see his/her comment first and then make my statement following comment only.
You say like that
when ever our detractors admit to our qualities and to our greatness can be index of our greatness
But it can reflects the broadmindedness of speakers that they are giving full space to heroes/ideas of other faith.
I have seen Ghandi boulevard in a strong Muslim country but nobody knows there about Jinnah although both raised their status at same tenure and area.
Have you seen name of Prophet and His companion in any state monument in non muslim areas.
We as Muslim have harassed the whole world by placing lock and key like blasphemous laws so no such liberal thoughts have been seeing in Muslim areas.
Yes you are right that most of problems in Muslim world is political but it is leadership that has covered these social and political problems under the guild of religious conflicts among communities.
This is very interesting that clerics of multiple faith never attack on top leadership and miltiary heads who make records of corruption in their tenure but all gather when something in support of public is sanctioned from govt level .It has become important part of our history that new kinds of faith are designed and developed either against state or in favor of state not to promote true spirit of Islam but to topple someone through bloody revolution.
I have no authority to say that ahmdiays are non muslims as they called themselves like that so whom I to declare them like that.
Second thing I have watched their attitude as neighbor and working colleagues, although they adopt abnormal way to present themselves but they belong to violence free group and I haven't seen and heard any kind of start of violence in their circles which is very prominent in our sunni shia gatherings.
So I cant follow the orders of Suadi friends who are ruling us on charity of those saudis.
No way I am obsessed with marrying widows of followers of sunnah but no doubt I miss no chance to vex the people including ladies and gentlemen who claim to be true lover and followers of Holy Prophet.
It is really fun to see as this question is annoying you even knowing well that marrying to widows is a strong example of Prophet to protect weak genders of society It was practical message to whole muslim community from top leader of Islam but his Ummat all time prefer to follow example of his last marriage, to marry younger girls.
Same situation of anger is seen in ladies community who all time preach Allah and rasool's way of living in daras like gathering , but when I ask them that they allow their husband for 2nd marriage or can accommodate poor and orphan girls with their son and brothers ,they reply me in same manner as you do that all men cant possibly marry to widow and orphans.
-So now I give you facts and figures in this regard only .001% muslim men opt to marry for a widow or orphan which I again say is strong sunnah.
-cleanliness is half of our faith and strictly orders by Prophet but if I am not wrong muslims are by nature highly unhygienic and avoid standard of cleanliness around their surrounding.
-We are strictly forbidden to take bribes, to say back biting and to accept interests(it is rated as eating flesh of your muslim brother) but 90% muslim community live with such highly off limits manners.
So please tell me having beard ,wearing shalwar above ankles ,saying prayers five times or marrying young girls are only ways of showing our love to Prophet and his sunnah.
Nazia: How many bloody revolutions can you list over here that have happened in muslim countries? The fact is that the overwhelming majority of the ulema throughout most of our history have been in service of the state & those in power.
Your argument that i have no right to consider ahmedy's non-muslims is really naive. Do you think ahmedy's consider you & me or people who do not believe in mirza ghulam ahmed as muslims? They also consider us kaafir & on the wrong path.
My believes concerning Islam are my BELIEVES - which means i think they are the right & true path - considering those who do not share the same beliefs as misguided is an inherent part of this or any other belief. If i also think that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed was also right & Ahmedis are right in accepting him as a prophet, than that means i don't have any conviction in my own believes. Is that who you are?
Ahmedi's can call themselves whatever they want to but i have every right to determine what my faith is & whether i consider them on the right path or not & muslim or not. I have a right to my opinion just as ahmedi's hold the same opinion about me & other non-believers in mirza ghulam ahmed.
So your argument is really naive & without merit. It is just a vain attempt at sounding 'liberal'.
Agreed that they have not reacted violently to the excesses committed against them but that is only for one reason - they are in a minority and they fear a bigger backlash if they are perceived as fighting back. It is this fear that keeps them quite. The same is true of Christians. They are also victims of targeted violence, but they also do not dare stand up in fear of a bigger backlash.
That we do not treat our minorities properly & in the correct spirit of Islam is true. I agree & it is our fault as a society & we as have to reflect on this.
Marrying younger women has nothing to do with being Muslim or non-muslim but is an inherent preference of men. Do westerners prefer older women to younger ones? Do japanese prefer older women? Name one society in the world where men prefer older widowed/divorced women to younger virgins.
Again, please don't make broad statements like Muslims are by nature highly unhygienic. What does it have to do with being Muslim? Hindus are not? Christians are not? You can finds all types of people in every society & muslims are a very heterogeneous group. For example, apart from the faith, what do Malay muslims have in common with Pakistani Muslims or Turkish Muslims or a Muslim from Saudi Arabia?
Regarding your point, that keeping a beard or wearing shalwar above ankles are not the only ways of showing the love of Prophet, i agree with you. I never argued about that. I agree people have reduced religion to a few relatively easy things & forget about the bigger message of Islam. About Huqooq-ul-Ibad for example. Many times the people with the most outwardly Islamic appearance & practices are the most disrespectful of their fellow human beings.
A1
More than 4 million qadayin members are living in Pakistan.
How much is their total number not clear but where ever they live they present a very organized peace living group.I have many times seen that qadiaynis are discriminated in Pakistan by stronger group even in job circle.They have been persecuted in Pakistan through miltiary force many times along with political decision but they are on their way as their existence is as real as you and me are surviving here in situation of doubts.
So you and your state have done all worst to them but they are remain as such so let them to live in their world by considering us non Muslim at least they are not following the principle of terrorism and violence to prove their presence in this area or any other part of world.
I know and see the Islamic spirit of strong muslim communities of Pakistan.I have closely watched the activities of shrine lovers, I am afraid of all time wailing attitude of shias public meeting as we might see more bloodshed on the name Islam in our streets.I am highly irritated when Taliban are called extremist Muslims as it is insult to be heard as a Muslim.
I couldnt control my laugh after seeing the abnormal hype of brelvis muslim through delusional facts which they concocted with their little brains and spread in large gatherings.
So in this mess of faith distortion if these ahmediays play their non violent role then what makes revolution in this country?
If somebody declare that I am non muslim that it wouldn't change my birth right or personal choice of picking particular faith but if I am coward or hypocrite then I would take aggressive stance to prove my words at all costs.
You say
Marrying younger women has nothing to do with being Muslim or non-muslim but is an inherent preference of men. Do westerners prefer older women to younger ones? Do japanese prefer older women? Name one society in the world where men prefer older widowed/divorced women to younger virgins.
None of any above mentioned community claim to be followers of Holy prophet who himself adopted this practice.
Christians believing that Christ is son of God and hazrat Mariam as single mother always given proper place to illegitimate child and single mothers in their society because they think it is some kind of reflection of their prophecy to secure single mother and illegitimate child in this unprotected world
Most Japanese consider themselves Buddhist, Shintoist or both and follow Siddhartha Gautam The foundations of Buddhist tradition and practice are the three Jewels: the Buddha, the Dharma (the teachings), and the Sangha (the community.Do you think their majority deny its basic teachings.Marrying to young and old women are their personal choices and their religion or Prophet didnt set any kind of example as did by Holy Prophet.
I dont know about other faith but as a muslim I can build my broader vision after studying their way of civic designs and living styles that we are least bothered nation about Hygienic conditions even around our religious places.As an individual I have worked on this issue to guide the community in this regard as per my range but all in vain and every thing has come to zero what ever efforts or technology provided to them.
I have seen thousand years BC designs of roman construction where proper channels are found to handle human waste but this system is completely absent in old designs of Islamic architecture styles where fine designs of mosques, tombs, pillars are available but handling sewerage and garbage is not in priority.
Nazia: What is your point? Did i say that the discrimination & violence against Ahmedi's or any other religious or ethinic minority is or was justified? My considering them as non-muslims does not have anything to do with the violence committed against their community. What happened in Lahore recently was cold blooded murder & the responsibility falls on our entire society.
The issue under discussion is whether i have a right to consider Ahmedi's non-muslims. I HAVE. Just as they would consider me. This is an inherent part of any religious belief. You naively think you don't have any right to consider them non-muslim. This may mean either you are an Ahmedi yourself or you have no conviction in your own beliefs & accept every tom, dick & harry a muslim. Theres a 'muslim' sect that worships Hazrat Ali as a reincarnation of God - do you consider them as muslims as well? just because they call themselves muslims?
It is an inherent part of ANY religious belief to consider the other religions as on the wrong path. There is nothing 'extreme' or 'militant' about this. This is just a stupid argument peddled by so called 'liberals'.
Regarding younger women, you just reinforced my point. None of these communities are muslims which proves that Islam & being muslim doesn't have anything to do with the preference for younger women. You cannot name one community where men have such a preference. This is an inherent preference that men have. Islam neither commands nor recommends marrying older women to younger ones. You don't get extra points with God according to the age of the woman you marry.
You cannot me more wrong about Christian faith. Where do you come up with these explanations? Acceptance of single mothers in western countries is only a recent phenomenon & doesn't have anything to do with Christianity. If it was so than what about the Christians living in India & Pakistan or Africa? Have you started making up Christian teachings to justify your points? Where in the bible does it say it is ok to have physical relations outside of marriage? The US was a pretty conservative society up to i guess the 50's & still is much more religious than many European countries. Why do you think bastard is used in a negative sense?
Regarding Japan i haven't studies Buddhism so i don't know what its teachings are. I am sure you haven't either but are just blindly making up religious injunctions for them. Second, the Holy Prophet married widowed women as well those marrying for the first time. He married both older women & younger ones. There is no Islamic injunction that requires men to marry older women or makes it a compulsion to marry widows. This is purely a societal/cultural issue.
The ancient romans were pagans. So you think their cleanliness had something to do with their religious beliefs in Zeus, Jupiter, Neptune etc.?
Amir Mughal,
First of all let me make a disclaimer, I have never read Maududi and have never been a follower of his or his jamat.
But here are few points I would like to make:
In many of your comments you pretend that you hate Maududi because he uttered some bad remarks about the Sahaba. So I went ahead and read your full comments.
Useless, as your links and references are, the only thing you mentioned was that he praised Ayatullah Khomaini and boasted of good friendship with him. Since khomeni uttered bad words against the Sahaba, then according to your logic Maududi should be held responsible....WOW what a logic.
I wasted my time reading your complete comment, expecting that you would write how Maududi dis-repected the Sahaba but your logic is to accuse him for his association with Khomeni.
So according to you, a sunni can not have friendship with a shia....WOW!!!
You bad mouth Maududi but what about Khomeni? You don't dare on that...why this hypcricy?
Dear Awan Sahab,
Don't waste your time do read what I have compiled on Khomeini on also read what I have compiled on every kind of Mullah.
So according to you, a sunni can not have friendship with a shia….WOW!!! [Awan]
====
Where did I say that?
Useless, as your links and references are, the only thing you mentioned was that he praised Ayatullah Khomaini and boasted of good friendship with him. Since khomeni uttered bad words against the Sahaba, then according to your logic Maududi should be held responsible [Awan]
===========
Read Khomeini's Books "Kashf Al Israr" "Tehreer O Waseela" and Hukoomat-e-Islamiya [Persian] and then judge yourself Mawdudi's praise for him.
Do read and research before opening your mouth.
Ok, so let me see where in your remarks have you used atleast the same words for Khomeni as you have for Maududi.
or show me in your comments posted above where you described the crimes of Maududi?
Yes Maududi was the one of those people who gave hard time to Zulfiqar Bhutto, is that the reason you are after him?
awan says: - July 2, 2010 at 10:04 am Ok, so let me see where in your remarks have you used atleast the same words for Khomeni as you have for Maududi. or show me in your comments posted above where you described the crimes of Maududi?
awan says: July 2, 2010 at 9:46 am Maududi because he uttered some bad remarks about the Sahaba.
========================
Mawdudi not only Insulted Sahaba Kiram [May Allah be pleased with all of them] but Prophet [PBUT] as well:
The Mawdudi Calamity! By Maulana Yusuf Ludhiyanwi (RA)
http://www.central-mosque.com/aqeedah/Mawdudi.htm
The writer of the article, well-recognised by the non-Arab as well as Arab Ulama and a well recognised expert in Firqa-e-Baatila (deviated sects), Moulana Muhammad Yusuf Ludhianwi (RA), has maintained his intellectual honesty by fulfilling his scholarly responsibility of pointing out (criticizing) Mr. Mawdudi. The writer is concerned that Mr. Mawdudi has attacked the very fiber and backbone of Islam by criticizing the illustrious Prophets and building a wall between the Ummah and the Sahaaba (Radhiallaahu Anhum). In his constitution, Mr. Mawdudi says, ‘No human should be made a measure of truth besides Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam).’. but Allah Ta’ala clearly declares the Sahaaba (Radhiallaahu Anhum) as a measure of truth in the innumerable verses of the Qur’aan NS in particular, Chapter 2 verse 13 and chapter 48 (Fath), Verse 29.
Yes Maududi was the one of those people who gave hard time to Zulfiqar Bhutto, is that the reason you are after him?
awan says: - July 2, 2010 at 10:04 am Yes Maududi was the one of those people who gave hard time to Zulfiqar Bhutto, is that the reason you are after him?
===================
Also read what I have compiled on Bhutto [both Senior and Junior].
awan says: - July 2, 2010 at 10:04 am So according to you, a sunni can not have friendship with a shia….WOW!!!
======================
Where did I say that?
awan says: – July 2, 2010 at 10:04 am Ok, so let me see where in your remarks have you used atleast the same words for Khomeni as you have for Maududi. or show me in your comments posted above where you described the crimes of Maududi? Yes Maududi was the one of those people who gave hard time to Zulfiqar Bhutto, is that the reason you are after him?
====================
Lets assume that I bad mouth Mawdudi because he had given tough time to Zulfikar Ali Bhutto. But why the below mentioned "disliked" Mawdudi? Are/were they all Bhutto supporters?
Even Mullahs were allergic to Mawdudi and Mawdudi, Jamat-e-Islami and their supporter’s Kharji Ideology!
Most of the Blasphemous Narrations about Sihaba Kiram which are often quoted conveniently are basically in Khilafat O Malookiyat by Mawdudi who never knew the Status of Prophets [PBUT] and Companions [May Allah be pleased wwith all of them].
Mawdudi quoted Blasphemous narration after narration from Alleged Islamic History without even verifying the authenticity and concocted the so-called Political Islamist Ideology.
Do read Khilafat o Malookiyat [original version and several issues of Tarjumnaul Quran] by Mawdudi Calamity again and differentiate between History and Tabbarrah. Mawdudi, his deviant books and his deviants followers of Jamat-e-Islami were thoroughly exposed by not leading Deobandi and Wahabi Maulvis read the following books on Mawdudi’s Tabbarah on Sihaba Kiram and Prophets [PBUT].
There is book written “Khilafat wa Malookiyat Ki Tareekhi Aur Shariee Haisiyat [Authenticity and Relity of Caliphat and Kingdom by Mawdudui] by Hafiz Salahuddin Yousuf [Editor of Weekly Eitisaam, Lahore Pakistan , he is a Salafi Scholar and if you get that book then please note that in preface following Deobandi and even Barelvi Scholars praised the above book on the refutation ofr Mawdudi's Deviant and Blasphemic Beliefs regarding the Companions of Prophet Mohammad.
1 – Mufti Muhammad Shafi Usmani [Deobandi]
2 – Justice Taqi Usmani [Deobandi]
3 – Late. Maulana Ziauddin Islahi [Daar ul Musanifeen Azam Garh India]
4 – Late. Maulana Yousuf Ludhiyanvi [Binnori Town - Deobandi] – Refuted Mawdudi in letter entitled: “Tanqeed aur Haqqe Tanqeed” which appeared in Bayanaat – Karachi
5 – Late. Maulana Ghulamullah Khan [Rawalpindi - Deobandi]
6 – Late. Dr Israr Ahmed [Former Deputy of Mawdudi]
7 – Late. Maulana Ameen Ahsan Islahi [Former number 2 of Mawdudi]
8 – Late. Agha Shoorish Kashmiri [Noted Scholar and Journalist]
9 – Late. Maulana Manzoor Naimani [One of the founder of Jamat-e-Islami and Deobandi scholar and also refuted Mawdudi in his book on Islamic Revolution of Iran]
10 – Safi ur Rahman Mubarakpuri [Author of Prophet Mohammad - PBUH's biography Ar Raheeq Al Makhtoom and he is an Indian Scholar and a Salafi]
11 – Late. Yousuf Saleem Chishti [Deobandi Sufi Scholar]
12 – Late. Maulana Abul Hasan Nadvi [Former Head of Darul Ulomm Deoband and Member Board of Medina University Saudi Arabia]
13 – Late. Mawlana Yousuf Binnori – Founder of Binnori Town refuted Mawdudi
14 – Late. Mawlana Abdul Majid Daryabadi pupil of Ashraf Ali Thanwi refuted Mawdudi.
Abul Ala Maudoodi and his party have been the subject of fatwas by Ulama of nearly every sect.
Mufti Muhzar-ullah, of Jami Fatehpuri in Delhi, wrote in his fatwa:
“On the very face of it, these things [beliefs of Maudoodi’s party] exclude a Muslim from the Sunnis, and lead to divisions among the believers, and is the basis of making a new sect. But looking closely, these things take one to heresy. In this case, they do not make a new sect, but result in one’s entry into the group of apostates.”
Maulana Hafiz-ullah of Aligarh has written:
“Whatever was the position of the Zarar mosque, similar is the position of this [i.e. Maudoodi’s] party.”
[Note: The Zarar mosque was a mosque built by some hypocrite Muslims in Madina during the Holy Prophet’s time for the purpose of conspiring against Islam].
The word kufr is used about the Zarar mosque in the Holy Quran. Hence the same word applies to these people.
Maulana Izaz Ali, Deobandi, wrote in his fatwa:
“I consider this [i.e. Maudoodi’s] party to be even more harmful for the faith of the Muslims than are the Ahmadis.”
Mufti Sayyid Mahdi Hasan, President-Mufti of the theological school at Deoband, writes in his fatwa:
“If an Imam of a mosque agrees with the views of Maudoodi, it is a hateful matter to pray behind him.”
Maulana Husain Ahmad Madani (Deobandi) wrote in a letter to Maudoodi:
“Your ‘Islamic’ movement is against the righteous tradition in Islam. It is like the [extremist] sects of old such as Mu‘tazila, Khwarij and Rafiz. It resembles modern sects such as Qadiani, Chakralvi [deniers of Hadith], Naturi [rationalist], and Baha’i [i.e. the Baha’i religion]. It seeks to make a new Islam. It is based on principles, beliefs and practices which are against the Sunnis and Islam.”
The Committee of Ulama of Maulana Ahmad Ali wrote in a poster against Maudoodi:
“His reasoning is devilry against the Quran.”
awan says: – July 2, 2010 at 10:04 am Ok, so let me see where in your remarks have you used atleast the same words for Khomeni as you have for Maududi. or show me in your comments posted above where you described the crimes of Maududi? Yes Maududi was the one of those people who gave hard time to Zulfiqar Bhutto, is that the reason you are after him?
=======================
Is this Maulvi in the video a Bhutto/PPP supporter?
Ahl-e-Hadith is exposing Jamat-e-Islami Iqamat-E-Deen Aur Jamaat-E-Islaami – 1/7(Urdu)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdxccyRJtMs&fea...
awan says: – July 2, 2010 at 10:04 am Ok, so let me see where in your remarks have you used atleast the same words for Khomeni as you have for Maududi. or show me in your comments posted above where you described the crimes of Maududi? Yes Maududi was the one of those people who gave hard time to Zulfiqar Bhutto, is that the reason you are after him?
===================
Maulvi below is not a PPP Supporter or is he?
Ahl-e-Hadith is exposing Jamat-e-Islami – Jamat Islami and Moulana Moududi’s corrupt Manhaj http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IJ8OQoFsjg
Jamat Islami and Moulana Moududi’s corrupt Manhaj-part2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylx8_GvWuFk&fea...
This news although in a different context, explains why justice can not be had in false blasphemy cases (most/all cases are false as far as we know), as extremists can exert pressure on courts big time;
Militants threat witnesses, police, judges to be silent in Pakistan
Militants groups in Pakistan are being proven so strong that they manage the acquittal of their colleagues from cases and proceedings against them in courts by threatening the families of judges, witnesses and police officers, local media reported on Tuesday.
According to reports, hundreds of militants have been successfully released from jails due to non-availability of witnesses and proofs enough to sentence them according to law.
Recently Pakistan's Lahore High Court took a strict notice about the acquittal of a criminal from a lower court who was arrested red-handed with a grenade during a terrorism attack on a police training academy in March 2009.
In another case family of anti-terrorism judge Mohammad Asim Imam performing duty in Pakistan's northwestern Malakand Division, received threats from the armed Taliban, who visited their residence few days back.
The judge is currently dealing with terrorism cases of Sufi Mohammad, Pakistani Taliban's spiritually whip, arrested last year during the military operation in the area.
Taliban visited their place, left a message for the family and the judge to fall in line or be ready for the consequences. They also ordered the family cook to tell the judge that they were after him and would soon sort him out.
This is the first time since the completion of the military operation in Swat last year that a judge dealing with the anti- terrorism cases has received threats from the Taliban.
The family of anti-terrorism judge Imam lives in Peshawar, capital of the northwestern province Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa, where his wife works as senior research officer at the provincial assembly secretariat.
Immediately after the incident, the government has provided security to the family but they are still worried about the safety as they are living in the danger zone.
"This is a common practice in Pakistan, not only Taliban even small criminal groups use these tricks to get their friends free from the courts, when there is no proof or witness, the court will have to free them," said Khalid Mahmood, a former police office in Punjab Province.
"Now in some cases, judges' names are kept secret and they hear the case proceeding in jail with covered faces to avoid any recognition by the accused," Khalid told Xinhua.
Source:Xinhua
Hakeem Dhakkan,
So according to you logic when Mullahs declared Jinnah as Kafir then they should quit the land of Jinnah instead of migrating to land of Jinnah..
hmmm...
In similar way since Qadianis consider Muslims as Kafirs then they should quit calling themselves as Muslims because Muslims do not believe that Ghulam Kafir Qadiani was a prophet
Also can you elaborate what other peoples should do who curse Muhammad Ali Jinnah and who are not followers of Maududi? should they also migrate too? like people of Jeay Sindh?
NO the truth is, we Muslims do not need a certificate from Kafir Qadianis to live in Pakistan or not.
Pakistan’s Medieval Constitution
* get funds/lands etc for madrassas, mosques etc. = then they get funds/lands etc for madrassas, mosques etc. from governments
"But these are no fatwas by politically active or motivated Mullahs."
Most (all) Mullahs are political these days, if they are not active in politics per se then get funds/lands etc for madrassas, mosques etc. It's all politics these days aka halwa maanda.
A real spiritual leader would stay away form worldly gains as per traditions of true Imams.
Hakeem: According to edicts of the religious authorities of sects that the majority of Muslims in Pakistan follow (Barelvi, Deobandi), Jinnah wasn’t even a Muslim.
How do you reconcile this fact?
One follower of such Mullahs came to Quaid and said he would not vote for Quaid as Quaid was not Muslim in his eyes. Quaid said "Fair enough vote for Ghandi, he's Muslim all right.".
And this is the fact that many of these Mullahs had no shame or reservation in following Indian Congress and Ghandi as their leaders. This shows these fatwas were politically motivated. Even now if Mullah gets nothing, government of woman is haram, and if he gets diesel permit all is well under same feminine government. We need to stop giving importance to these political Mullahs and their politically motivated (read halwa maanda) fatwas. These Mullahs and their blind followers have a big share in ruining this country.
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