Mai Jori, a ‘Peasant’ Contesting Baluchistan By-elections
Mai Jori Jamali a peasant farmer belonging to a village called Ghulam Muhammad Jamali in Baluchistan filed to contest the bye-election on the vacant seat of Baluchistan Assembly PB 25 Jaffarabad – I on March 10th 2010. Her papers have been accepted and declared correct after scrutiny. Mai Jori is illiterate and helps her husband in farming she also looks after her nine children. She brings water for the family after traveling 2 km distance and was shot into prominence in 1978 due to Pat Feeder Kisan movement when progressive and trade unions leaders had started living in the Goth area for the sake of movement.
Mai Jori is contesting from the area which was recently brought into focus for the infamous and heinous crime against women where a few women were buried alive in 2008 in a case of Honor Killing. Mai Jori Jamali is contesting election on party ticket of Awami Party Pakistan.
It is being reported that Mai Jori and her relatives have taken this decision to dare to fight with outdated customs of women brutality in the region.
Awami Party leader Ramzan Memon said that “Mai Jori will prove that politics even election politics is possible with money and high level patronization. Mai Jori will lead the long march by foot from village to village as part of election campaign against Pajeros and high level influence. They also demanded from the government to ensure enabling environment so that Mai Jori can feel herself safe during election campaign and in future too”
Naturally an election campaign requires some level of funding and a collection has already been initiated from the voters of the constituency while a strong appeal is being made to democratic and progressive people for their support and contributions. Simultaneously a more recent effort is being made to gather a list of potential volunteers who would help in the monitoring of a free and fair polling day.
Her effort to rally electoral support kicking off with a door to door Haqooq March [Rights' March] on 1st March to the 8th of March where she and fellow women colleagues will walk through a number of villages this on immediate impact shows the courage of women to break one major traditional taboo about woman’s mobility in the area
I believe that Mai Jori deserves our unconditional support from every where in the country and abroad it will give inspiration to other women irrespective of their political affiliation to come forward and resist and break free from various heinous customs and traditions used against women, like Karo-Kari and honor killing amongst many other issues
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it is first time of history pakistan that a ilitrate women standing in election as provonicial assembly member it is start of revolution of democracy our org Nisa development organization Women Resource Centre also working for her please send your comments on [email protected]
Memon
It was not first time but many women tried this after getting some support from local liberals but all attempts failed as our government is fully aligned with typical feudalistic and corrupt ground political forces.
So victory of MMA and mqm in our extreme side during Musharraf regime was latest and clear example It prove that even a donkey can be placed on winning dice if establishment and US are in mood of backing him.
In last regime rest of woman power show was filled through creating special women seats in all assemblies giving way to more nepotism culture in our corrupt system of legislation.
Tamazz
I am not a good conveyor through word powers.
but there is no ridiculous terms in my words.
I said
“But most of time they never listened to such advices and prefer stick to their lower level.”
This point is linked with family planning procedures which were offering to them for last 40 years but majority even now is not listening and reacting against it.
So this population explosion is causing hunger and starvation in lower class as our demand is not matching with our supply through meager and static resources.
“So poor sometimes wants to create self pity scenes or idle nature which can easily lead them to starvation or stick to lower class like situation.
This experience you can learn if you really handled them in practical lives.
Abnormal and excessive increase in beggars in our all areas of Pakistan is clear example of my this point.You would hardly find a good worker in this human folk but our streets have been filled with beggars.
Hope you under stand!
I am sorry, but Imran also collected money from Nawaz, Bhutto and all types of corrupt politicans in and outside Pakistan for his two 'recognized projects'.
The rest of your post is rambling on details I am not contesting, which are general knowledge.
I'll just highlight a few 'gems' from your latest post.
"But most of time they never listened to such advices and prefer stick to their lower level."
"So poor sometimes wants to create self pity scenes or idle nature which can easily lead them to starvation like situation."
Maybe if you repeat these lines to yourself a couple of times you will realise how ridculous they sound.
Goodbye, Nazia.
Tamaaz
Now you have come to good tone of discussion with less personal attacks.
You have broken my sentences in which I mentioned that many kilns having bonded labor culture are still under control of political elites whom we consider as posh class in our urban circle.
Few names of families have been given in above comment
I personally know few characters whose third generation are US returned but work still on old orthodox ways for handling poor class proving that education and exposures to modern world even cant control the greed and inbuilt brutality of any person.
Imran's individual character is quite unbalanced but no way he can be included in such triple faced class.His all funds are generated through public money and still no unjustified ways are found in his money collection process for his two recognized projects.
You are not accurate in your observation:
because a starving person doesn’t realize what his STATUS is
The day they would realize their status as capable human, they would start getting response from system .
A feudal can harass one or two families but if whole village or group of hundred labours behave like sheep so they would be driven in same sheepish way.
Our 60% population are linked with agriculture so they get some food items from open fields or live stocks.Problems of starvation usually appear in crowded urban areas where massive migration , less employment opportunity and high inflation problem are the main reason of starvation.
You think I never handled poor class.I tried to convince few to go for small family instead of long train of kids or try to provide them little opportunity for earning on their own basis.But most of time they never listened to such advices and prefer stick to their lower level.
I have observed that people of lower class bring the change in their lives with consistent handwork and keeping small family.
So poor sometimes wants to create self pity scenes or idle nature which can easily lead them to starvation like situation.
So seeing only one side for judging the failure of human efforts have many aspect other than those which you are trying to highlight.
@Nazia
'they all are considered posh class of our urban system.
Most of their siblings are foreign return educated breed."
- you just described Imran Khans background! and then you go on to say...
"So I again come to same point that bringing IK like people in mainstream can bring change in our system."
-how will it change with the same type of people?
"You know to whom these brick kilns belong?
Mostly are our parliamentarians."
- I already said that in my previous post, what is your point?!
"Other’s majboori is not piece of enjoyment for me but people should first realize their low lying buried status.."
-because a starving person doesn't realize what his STATUS is!
I do not get what you are tyring to say!
Tamaaz
your link is not readable.
Here again it is matter of extreme injustice predominant in our system .
You know to whom these brick kilns belong?
Mostly are our parliamentarians.
like chaudry brothers, faisal saleh hayyat, wattoo and some close relatives of qasuri and gillani families.
they all are considered posh class of our urban system.
Most of their siblings are foreign return educated breed.
So I again come to same point that bringing IK like people in mainstream can bring change in our system.
Such slavery attitude is basic hurdle that groups either survive for one roti or jump to most heinous human crime for their survivals.
Nobody can deny the intensity of bonded labour in our culture but areas near gujrat, gujranwala, sargodha and mianwali have shown change where lower class has come one step above their past and influential groups retrived from their original position holding for many centuries.
You have heard the Massood hospital scandal of lahore.
So who actually misused the hunger of poor and bonded class.
Masood hospital owners come in educated but senseless class of Pakistan who spread their network after seeing the weakness of judicial system.The day laws and law enforcing agencies got clue of their brutalities, they were caught red handed.
So spread of economic opportunities need protection of justice for weak class, other wise all influential group misuse their power for becoming more rich and powerful.
Dont worry about my departures from reality.this is impossible for me to live away from my culture and the day I will get privileged position in my system, I will maintain my high moral grounds more than your expectation.
Other's majboori is not piece of enjoyment for me but people should first realize their low lying buried status and then we can help them to come out of their slavery mind.
http://idsn.org/fileadmin/user_folder/pdf/New_file...
This is a most informative peice on the type of labour that affects most of Pakistan. Hopefully it will open your eyes to reality.
@Nazia,
Your assertion that bonded labour is absent in Punjab is nonsense. Majority of brick klins operate in Punjab, 90% of the work force there is bonded. Mukhtaran Mai, was from the Punjab, and is of the same class of people, as are millions of Punjabis.
The piece has a discussion on Kasur (in PUNJAB) and other bonded labor industries located mainly in Punjab like Tanneries.
Please read it so you understand the reality of Pakistans poor and how lines between right/wrong get blurred when the main aim is survival.
If you are in the priviliged position to have such a high moral ground, do not look down on others who's 'majboori' does fit in your haughty world view.
@Nazia
What are you saying? No one is arguing that Pakistan's political system is not corrupt, neither is anyone discussing the irrigation techniques of Baluchistan.
Nazia, I am concerned about your departures from reality.
I have NEVER EVER seen an HR manager for manual laborers. They get paid Rs. 150 a day, if they don't like it millions of unemployed laborers are waiting for their turn.
Manual laborers are are not employees of any private or public company, they get paid daily 'dehari' not a salary. You line up to hope to get a job that day, if you are not chosen you have no job for that day.
No court will convict a contractor for choosing one over the other, when there are millions who are sitting about enemployed.
That is the most RIDICULOUS notion I have ever heard.
- Did you not say Imran had to deal with crooks and criminals, at some point, to get his SKH?
- Did you not admit that angels will not come down from heaven and save us, and we should at least appreciate some progess and development?
I think you finally understand it is not very easy for a poor man to provide a living for his family, in today's Pakistan and often has to deal with corrupt/criminal indiviuals to eke out a living.
It's not ideal but its reality.
These are the points I have been making all along (go back and re-read my comments) about why people support PPP/PMLN/MQM.
Thank you and goodbye.
Tamaaz
So after completion of 24 hrs cycle, now your anger level is again coming on high peak.
You say
1.) Menial labor Jobs – daily wagers are mainly available in Urban areas.
Sourcing for these jobs are done through contractors.
Most contractors are divided amongst ethnic/clan lines, most have political affiliations with the same corrupt people you talk about.
You have raised an important point and against this since last year I raised my voice in front of many HR managers.Result is now being felt as many workers of some private companies have rebelled against such workmanship and case has been come in front of labour court.
These workers publicly humiliated these corrupt officers for bringing such laws for filling their own pocket .
Many threats have been given to workers and as judge is looking honest in this case so other kind of lucrative packages are being offered to them for ceasing the case in tomorrow hearing.
So now feel the power of free judiciary through this little change and reaction of people against oppressive attitude of typical bureaucratic mind officers in our weak areas.
Again your valid point has different perception from my point of view
2.) Rural pesants like Mai Jori are share croppers. They either work in small landholdings or small resource based outfits (like brick klins).
The majority of the share of their produce has to go to the local influential who employs (enslaves) the
Such cases have been absent from areas which I mentioned and such share croppers are existing where control of state is unable to protect the peasants like her.
Actually controllers of that area all time sit in parliaments and act as monarch to them by misusing their authority.
No matters whether Musharraf come or zardari take over control, nobody has courage to interfere in their bloody way of controlling the people.
In mai jori areas it is not only sardars who are only stake holders of Baluchistan for last 60 years but our strong military mafia has grown like uniform feudal of this unlucky province.
If some rebellious people save their lives from such landlords then army secret hands are there to remove them from scene.
If you hear the voice of kins of missing people and target killing victims they would point your fingers toward our uncontrollable agencies.
Full fledged smuggling is going on there under FC and coast guard men and people are taking it as part of normal life.
Educated people mostly belong to Punjab and northern side is hit and killed in this eye wash movement for eradication of educated class completely in this province and all is done under strong FC control which is deputed there since the time of Musharraf
I am sure for local young generation it is all part of normal life to survive and earn living like that.
So you see in all frustration the lawless attitude of human exists.
In past Baluchistan had organized system of irrigation under Karez rain drains.We had many tasty and precious fruits and crops grown here but all has gone destroyed under illegal business of arms and smuggling.
We can earn million through tourism industry which can produce employment there on permanent basis but goons or official dons want to control this milking cow in their personal control only.
I don't know why your life is stuck to one roti and kapra scheme.
This way you look the best supporter of Benazir support program through which 1000 rs are provided in their begging bowl for solving this one roti problem.
Imran khan cant bring change in dark environment of baluchistan nor I am optimistic about success of mai jori.
Buddha is born in king's palace and they can bring innovation in the system.
So lets see who would play here the role of buddha in the pure land of vultures and hyenas only.
Now farmers are earning equal amount of proift and food products
@ Nazia
Your "imaginary calculation" is how simple you make it seem for the hungry to make their living or get jobs.
- "If I am hungry and illiterate then I go for labour jobs."
If you think it is so simple, you are out of touch with reality.
- "...this greed of one roti and surviving for left over "
Greed does not factor in starvation, survival does!
A few facts about how EASILY a poor man can feed his family in Pakistan.
1.) Menial labour Jobs - daily wagers are mainly available in Urban areas.
Sourcing for these jobs are done through contractors.
Most contractors are divided amongst ethnic/clan lines, most have political affiliations with the same corrupt people you talk about.
2.) Rural pesants like Mai Jori are share croppers. They either work in small landholdings or small resource based outfits (like brick klins).
The majority of the share of their produce has to go to the local influential who employs (enslaves) them.
This is their livelihood (how they feed their families) and this is the leverage used to get votes out of them.
You agree with me, there are no angels:
"But from where we bring angels in our system to run the state matters,
People should be given spaces on the basis of their performance and running projects within Pakistan."
If this is true for building SKH, then why not be true for those who vote for corrupt/criminal people for their daily bread, or making sure their city runs properly?
What is a good "performance and running project" for you (aka SKH) is not the same for everyone else.
- You may not require food and shelter but rather a cancer hospital and some talk of Justice.
- Others may require roti/kapra/makan, or infrastructure TODAY and can do without lectures on morality and rhetoric.
Nazia, the attidue is there because you do not base your viewpoint on ground reality.
I talk dispargingly to you because of your subjective, naive and hypocritical views.
As well as your haughty insistance that the poor should starve to death, rather than accept morsels from the corrupt. While the rest of the "DECENT" people do nothing to help, except criticize, talk about Islam, politics, corruption and vague notions of JUSTICE.
"...I linked it to the basic philosophy of Islamic state which also gives importance to judical system where even Head is answerable for hungry dog near Dajala river."
-Wonderful!!! Will it feed me and my family, TODAY?
1.) If your eyes are open how do you disregard the fact the majority in our rural BASIC NEEDS of food and shelter take precedence over vague terms of JUSTICE.
2.) Justice without Law is just a word. Imran Khan has not even thought that far about what Law his Justice would be based on. Can you elaborate? Islamic or Secular Law? If Islamic, Shia or Sunni Law? If Sunni, Barelvi or Deobandi or Wahhabi Law?
3.) Great point about those corrupt people and their social work. Now let me ask you:
If you were starving do you care if the only roti you are getting for the day comes from a sinner?
Imran certainly did not care!
4.) Imran got a lot of his money for SKH from the same type of corrupt people that General Jihandad Khan did: Nawaz Sharif, Bhutto all manner of corrupt people contributed to his cause, along with many good people.
If it was okay for Imran Khan to collect from the corrupt why not General Jihandad Khan?
Everyone knows about SKH, we all know the story of his mother and his pain.
3.) What people want to know is how much money the Zionist Goldsmith family, Jews, Indians, Americans, British, PPP people, Nawaz's People and MQM people put towards the hospital?
The same people he talks disparagingly about everyday.
Imran did not single handedly make SKH, he had a lot of help, but he never aknowledges that help.
Where are imaginary calculation in my talks.
If you think my views are subjective, naive and hypocrite than why you are lowering down further your disparagingly attitude by enhancing the range of discussion.
I think that you are harsh and rigid by nature and unless you don't spill your anger on others, your food of aggressive thoughts cant pass through your digestive system.
After purging anger disparagingly on others , your conditions improves.
I think I am doing some kind of nobility in this internet social work by giving you opportunity to spill out your anger and feel relax for another 24 hrs.
No way I can think that poor should starve to death but this greed of one roti and surviving for left over of feudalistic characters are the basic reason of their lower rank in our society.
I would give you its practical example.
The agriculture area of central Punjab and villages toward northern and southern Punjab and its haris are amongst the first all over Pakistan who got themselves free from typical slavery attitude of landlords.
That is reason the land has been distributed to even farmers of that area.Here education system is much better and they have received the state facilities in education, health and economic opportunities better than other areas of Pakistan.That change had appeared here in the time of Bhutto.That was basic reason the typical feudal of Punjab were against Bhutto who even couldnt change the wadera culture in his province but brought revolutionary change in the basic mentality of common people.
Now the sons of haris are either in respectable govt jobs or having ownership of land which were once in the hands of typical family only.
I am not saying it is an ideal condition there but a visible change has been come through awareness of their rights and their access to judicial system as compared to Sindh and Baluchistan areas.
All kind of Impotent laws are still part of our legal system but its application are hardly observed through judiciary and that was the main reason of our backwardness of most of rural areas.
That was the main reason that in same area where mai jori is fighting for her survival a state minster killed three women along with his accomplices and nobody could even dare to arrest him for one day.
If I am hungry and illiterate then I go for labour jobs.
In lower class almost all member of family work either on daily wages or on monthly basis.If they are eight or 10 members then there is time when all are on work.
So it all depends on intentions of people how to survive in this brutal system.
Another dangerous trend which appears in lawless society is inclination of illiterate class toward criminal activities as sole option of survival as living being or due to hatred for settled class.
So strong judical system as per demand of IK is parallel requisite of strong society along with basic requirement of human life.
I am quite familiar of his hypocrite level of selecting elite life styles for himself and his family.His colorful activities with yousuf salehdin a friend indeed.
But from where we bring angels in our system to run the state matters,
People should be given spaces on the basis of their performance and running projects within Pakistan.
-sorry the figure for childbrith mortality is 53/1000
A huge number in our rural areas die of diseases and infections that are very easily curable.
If Imran Khan had spent the last 13 years building up social services like SKH, for common people. He would be running the country right now, no doubt!
@Nazia
Again, you are arguing over matter which I am not even contesting.
You are bringing Islam into this conversation about Pakistan.
Wake up, there is more Islam in the West than in Pakistan.
You said:
"You are talking about shrewd politics Vs ignorant and Innocent people."
Aunty, get out of your house, open your eyes, THIS IS REALITY.
You keep talking about utopia, as if Pakistan is an Islamic wonderland, where if you wish hard enough, things will change.
Maybe with your full stomach and roof above your head, such soft and cuddly thoughts help you sleep at night. Most people in our country go to sleep on an empty stomach.
Maybe with all this time on your hands, you should do social work. More than discussing politics on the internet social work is what will bring Pakistan closer to the utopia you are looking for.
Everyone knows about SKH, it practically crammed down our throats!
SKH provides specialized cancer care. Cancer patients in Pakistan are a v.small portion of the problems we have.
NOT to say that they are not important and IK has done a great service there.
But he couldn't have done it alone, there were many of people who played a part who are not recognized for their duties;
Jews, Indians and Americans, PPP, PMLN, MQM people included.(maybe you should heed your own advice of recognizing the good deeds of others, madam)
What is a priority:
80/1000 children die in their first year
30/1000 mothers die in childbirth
Tens of thousands of people a year die of curable diseases like dihorrea/pnemonia/tb.
If instead of building large hospitals, we spread the money all over pakistan into small clinics, and primary schools, our nation would be better served.
Please open your eyes to reality, day-dreaming wont help our country, action on the ground will.
Khan
First try to reduce your dominating cursing attitude for me in your comments.
Unable to understand the reason of such personal remarks.
My style of comments itself is telling you that I am not living in any kind of utopia and nor dependent on any kind of historical cutting pasting techniques for justifying my point of views.
My eyes are open, ears are hearing bitter realities, and hands are doing good deeds as per my capacity.
Taunting on internet social work??
You are also sharing this burden with me, fully hoping more than me so what is to smutty in this kind of activity?
Now come to reality the child mortality rate is more than what you mentioned here.
Even those who survive are mostly living below poverty lines.
Social workers or celebrities usually work in their living or family premises and he is doing commendable job in this way.
Justice to all , slogan is his basic theme in politics which he wants see in our unlawful state.He practically supported his words while judiciary movement and not participating in elections.
As you denied the importance of delivering justice in hungry society therefore I linked it to the basic philosophy of Islamic state which also gives importance to judical system where even Head is answerable for hungry dog near Dajala river.
I am sure if he has more resources he can go for another projects as you are mentioning but I again say that your demands are duties of state and its representatives.
At this moment he is not representing state any way so what is big deal.
He gave life of his emotional desire after seeing the pain of her mother and now this modern hospital is serving hundreds on daily basis.
I wish all of our celebrities and rich class feel the same agony in surrounding or through local bitter experience.
No harm after that they would come to politics, we would welcome them too.
Last month I attended a fund raising ceremony of alshifa eye hospital.Here the personal efforts of General Jihandad khan was worth to praise and extraordinary too as he had gone to all tables personally for collecting money.
But whom he was demanding were the most corrupt icons of our govt public representatives.
If they one side giving him donations,then other side they are damaging state funds for recovering such social deals just for publicity.
if they wouldn't have done such huge corruption during their high profile tenure, I am sure our state was able to run better social services then we already had.
So controlling corruption in our system is more demanding than any kind of social work is used to give blanket to criminal record.
I would give you exampels of few.
Ghurki group*(all time in our parliament houses) is running a big hospital near Lahore India border and they are famous for their gold and arms smuggling.
Seth abid is doing extraordinary social work in all sectors and his money is all generated through wrong and even anti state acts.
Malik riaz is running extra ordinary social jobs in the sector of health and providing food to almost 3000 people daily.But all know how he got his stairs of becoming the richest tycoon of Pakistan.
I think IK is much better than above characters who are doing charity on blood money or by grabbing rights of weaker genders.
Pakblend
You are unaware of physical power of our rural women.They work hard more than their men,Give birth to maximum kids they can and their normal working hours are 14 to 16 hrs, mostly with laborious job.
I agreed with you miss nazia.
unbelievible!!!!!! simply unbelivible.. we still have such ambitious and brave women around us...i m astonishe...
i agree with many of you that corruption in all around us... but atleast anyone has taken an initiative to get rid of it..so instead of arguing like many of u i m strongly of the view that we must render our full support to her to increase her moral and give firmity to her aims...
As long as we have injustice we will not prosper. Tell me, who will invest in Pakistan as long as we have crooks leading the nation? And the consequence is NO development and hence NO roti, kaprha aur makan!
Nobody will bring investment in war zones or in highly terrorized areas.
In such areas only marketing agents of war industry would come and watch the areas for business deals.
first get rid of military games and war agendas within boundary of Pakistan and then think of survival on long term basis.
Roti kapra and makan is hollow slogan which is trying to revive by corrupt zardari for showing his political sense.
Countries participating in war and insurgency like activities never even can think of such minimum survivals.
Khan
The first principle of islam and justice is that people living in specific geographic boundaries has the right over the resources of that area. That economic system in which all the people are equal no single person or specific class can get hold of the resources.
It was narrated by Hazrat Abu Bakkar in “Equality is better in economics than giving priority to one group over other.
Another principle of justice is again linked with economic condtions of Islamic state and it is that everybody has the right to have limited owner ship as the abilities of every individual are different.
Not that the whole nation should have same clothing, food and houses.
Islamic economics is also based on justice again and it is that any practice which concentrates wealth in certain hands will not be tolerated and the system will oppose it.
So both justice and economics are strongly correlated with each other n Islamic state .
You say
Rural Reality:
A politician gives starving man a loaf of bread, a hut and kameez. The man becomes his Jiyala and votes for him regardless of the fact that for every roti he distributes the politician pockets $1000 rupees.
This is the sad reality of Pakistani politics.
You are talking about shrewd politics Vs ignorant and Innocent people.
Dont blame innocence of people over the corruption of few which can be blocked by prevailing lawful system.
Here the negative factor is intention of Politician and if Imran khan like many other social worker come forward and prove their credibility than situation can be different.
You are unaware of SKH.
It has proper clinic where first patient is diagnosed free of cost and then taken to cancertreatment if diagnosed.
He made this hospital after seeing the miseries of her mother as Cancer patient.
He felt the deficiencies of cancer treatment during her pain and set the goal.
Setting the basic HUs is govt job and even then ,many private groups have developed it for benefiting people as per ranage and capacity.
One should have a little heart and courage to praise even the small goodness of others.
SKH is huge modern project in underdeveloped country which he surely brought through his extreme effort .
Jibran
chutto hee rohoo gay saree ommer.
Even company of elders are not helping you to come out of your immature age.
You are taking me to 200 years back when Sikhs were ruling the main areas of subcontinent.
Shah waliullah is still considered on the list of top Islamic scholars of Asia and his teaching innovated many new ideas in backward and illiterate Muslim class of subcontinent.
syed shaeed was considered warrior and he mainly composed his army to fight against Sikhs a non muslims community ruling the muslim majority.
I am talking about these mullahs who are showing their activism on Muslims and in Islamic republic of Pakistan .We got this country on the name of ISLAM where my mentioned breed are attacking and killing each other for preventing individuals' faith.In this new form of Islam here all are behaving like custodian of Islam.
If you want to compare between this era and 1800 year then you will find a revolutionary and might be evolutionary change in our Islamic culture where Tablleghi jammat ICONS and our Taliban groups mostly linked with sunni and whabi groups have been aligned with sikhism.
read for refreshing your knowledge.
http://www.sikhtimes.com/news_060705a.html
The latest innovation of our mullahs are contrary to our history as you are trying to show me.
Even ghulum Qadiyani of that era never promoted aggressive propagation of Islam as our Tableeghi groups or mullahs are doing in islamic countries only.
Chutto we educated people can confront faith vs faith through our knowledge, practical demonstration or with logic but tell me how to handle the butchers of Islamic faith who prefer to behead first and then go for suicidal killing who are not in mood of even listening to them.
Aunty Nazia,
"Mullahs did exist in our culture before creation of Pakistan but only restricted in premises of a mosque or reciting Quran like activities."
May be you can look smart in your liberal-ignorants-club...
Go read history about Syed Ahmed Shaheed, Shah Waliullah and later 1857, Tipu Sultan and so many other Ulema who fought against British Empire...
Yes, there were people like Ghulam Kafir Qadiani who was practicing kabala-like-cult and other things, but then who considers him Muslim?
Dear Mr. Jibran,
Please correct some Historical Facts here that Syed Ahmed and his disciple Shah Ismail fought against Sikhs [Sikhs then were fighting against British Empire] not the British Empire and both were betrayed by Durranis and Barakzai Tribal Chiefs. [Reference: Tareekh Dawat O Azeemat by Abu Hasan Ali Nadvi aka Ali Mian - Former Head of Darul Uloom Deoband]
Shah Waliullah [syed Ahmed and Shah Ismail were descendants of Waliullah Family] was no doubt a great scholar [translated Quran in Persian for the very first time in the then Hindustan and his sons Translated the Quran in Urdu (also the first time) and contributed a lot for Islam but they never participated in any Phyiscal Jihad against British Raj rather Shah Aziz [son of Shah Wali] was the first scholar who issued a Fatwa for learning English and allowed employment for the Muslims for British [Reference Aab-e-Kausar, Rood-e-Kausar and Mauj-e-Kausar by Sheikh Ikram published in 1950s] also [Reference: Tareekh Dawat O Azeemat by Abu Hasan Ali Nadvi aka Ali Mian - Former Head of Darul Uloom Deoband]
Best Regards.
@Nazia
Your comments in the past have been indicative of your sheltered nature, and this continues...
What you describe there is ALL TRUE and basic information which we all know, no one is arguing the nature of politics in Pakistan.
What you are looking for is utpoia and that exists in the hereafter, not in Pakistan, unfortunately.
Rural Reality:
A politican gives starving man a loaf of bread, a hut and kameez. The man beomes his Jiyala and votes for him regardless of the fact that for every roti he distributes the politican pokets $1000 rupees.
This is the sad reality of pakistani politics.
This is what Imran needs to reconcile himself with. People can't eat words, they can't cover themselves with thoughts and cannot sleep under concepts. For them basic survival is their ONLY priority.
-In a country where there are 2000 patients to every doctor, CLINICS are needed, not specialized hospitals.
-In a country where 75% of the population is illiterate PRIMARY EDUCATION is needed, not universities.
For the Urban more educated people, simple minded rhetoric like JUSTICE, without any allusion to its implications or implementation is all hot air. They can tell IK hasn't given his concept of Justice too much though.
Urbanites look for representation from the community (whatever that may be ethnic, religious, sectarian, locality)and for a record of progress and development.
Choosing between political parties/polticians is like being forced to pick between two rotten fruit: you pick the one that offends you the least and will provide some degree of nourishment. A picture of a tasty and nutritious fruit won't help anyone.
@Tamaz
"What you are looking for is utpoia and that exists in the hereafter, not in Pakistan, unfortunately."
Aaahhh. What a (weird) angle. Are you saying that what does not exist in Pakistan you should strive for?
Khan
you say
Imran Khan does not stand for anything, he has no stakeholders, he has no constituency, he has no agenda.
Does Zardari, sharif, Altaf hussain and now Musharf who is desperate in coming to politics these days, fits in this criteria which you have described for any political leader of Pakistan.
Oh yes you can say that underdeveloped countries politician must stand behind Uniform support, make alliance with military leadership for solving the problems of few people, groups or institutes and then rule the country.
Imran does'nt fit as politician in our money, caste and status quo centered like society,
He doesn't come from feudal family or inherited political genes so we people cant accept him in few places.No matter he brings few more miraculous projects of hospital and universities.
I dont say he is professional or perfect Politician but all others who are ruling us through generation can be named in the category of even good citizen of Pakistan.
No doubt his personal life doesn't match with his words and ambition but no one can take his right of coming to politics on the basis of his fair projects for Pakistan.
How can you say that justice in interlinked to roti kapra and makan.
Mai jori like hard survivors of system belongs to richest province of Paksitan.
All MPAs of Baluchistan are richest men of Pakistan.
It is land of goods and human smugglers and arms dealers.
So if there is no justice in the system money, education, land and food would only confine to few powerful hands and injustice values of state would deprive millions who actually deserve it.
He claims people do not need roti/kapra aur makan but justice, how does he explain the votes PPP/PML(N) get despite their OBVIOUS CRIMES.
_____________________________________________________
there could be the two angles for looking and answering this question.
1) POLITICAL ANGLE
like many i believe that the politics is the name of an art of exploiting the expectations of the masses.
2) PSYCHE OF THE MASSES.
i am still wondering for answer. why a person who prays Allah(swt) for sending a massahia for killing every politician and criminal of the society and when election comes he votes for the same person for whom he was cursing.
why a common man votes for same person to whome he can not trust for his own money.
why the people do not want a change?...why don't say that we have tried this man he is proven uncompetant and corrupt lets try different party and different people.
why people follow others like a sheep.
may be the reason is that anomalies are considered as normal way of life. or may be the physche of masses is entirely different from the psyche of the individual. individually one can be sharp,smart and innovative but when it comes to collective decision,people become one more mouse in a rat race.
@dr jawwad khan
" am not a political supporter of imran khan but i feel sincerity in his words and his body language."
Fan boy alert!!!
Dr. Jawwad, after all that studying and hard work to become a doctor, why can you not figure out what the rest of the country (mostly uneducated) has figured out a long time ago.
It doesn't take a political genius to figure out why Imran Khan does not win elections.
Imran Khan does not stand for anything, he has no stakeholders, he has no constituency, he has no agenda.
Every few years we know what he is against, but we never find out what he is for. That's ehy he has always flip/flopped on his stance and will continue to do so.
His Justice/Insaf rhetoric is rank amateur and half baked, and can only entice the simple minded or those who have too much time on their hands and an internet connection.
Justice does not exist in a vaccum, justice is based on law. So what law does IK propose for Justice: Secular, Islamic. I doubt he has even thought this far to be able to articulate fully. True to his simple minded form, he says "insaf chahiyay bas". Any person with a iota of intellect would ask "insaf? kis bunyad par?"
The reason for his political naivite is his celebrity, which, because of our culture, doesn't afford him the chance to come across people who would point out the MANY holes in his political thought.
Also, the fact is that he is SO FAR REMOVED from the average population, for God's sake, he lives in a house designed to be as far away from people as possible. Not even in his only consituency, that Musharraf got him elected from.
A glaring example of his falwed political thinking:
He claims people do not need roti/kapra aur makan but justice, how does he explain the votes PPP/PML(N) get despite their OBVIOUS CRIMES.
A 'peasant' like Mai Jori can figure this one out, not becuse she has no education, but like the majority of the country, she lives on the edge of starvation and NEEDS roti/kapra/aur makan.
Only a person with suits for his foreign vists, shalwar kameez for pakistan, a house from which you cannot see the starving, and a full stomach wouldn't be able to priortize basic living needs over some idealistic VAGUE ideal of Justice.
Aamir ko koi aur kaam nahe hai shayad is dunya may?
AM r u live in australia?
No I haven't and live all over the place:)
I am not a political supporter of imran khan but i feel sincerity in his words and his body language. At least he has a moral courage to apologize for his action.
kindly do not forget the atmosphere of post nawazshareef time after 1999 to 2004. At that time Pervez Musharraf was seen as saviour of pakistan.Every one was decieved partly because of acting skills of pervez musharraf backed by his heroic image in Kargil war and withdrawl of forces by Nawaz shareef and mostly because of the system of the country.
For me he did a right job by apologising the nation.i shall keep appericiating his act of courage till he repeats this act.
MQM and Pervez Musharraf have the history of long working relations and blind trust on each other. We have seen one bloody example of this relationship on Oct 2007 on the streets of karachi.
Hazrat Eisa Aleh salam once said to the bani Israel (meaning)
"you poeple filter the mosquitoes and engulf the whole camels"
criticism for the sake of criticism is not a good thing.
Dear Jawwad Sahab,
Even if you are a political supporter of Imran Khan or any other party then it's your basic right and who am I to raise objection on your basic right, even criticizing anybody harshly is your basic right and no one should be allowed to tinker with your Freedom of Expression. I never doubted [ever] Imran's sincerity he has for Social Causes and Health but why his sincerity is answered like this: Vandalism and Vandals of Jamat-e-Islami and IJT. http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2009/05/vandalism...
@ Amir Mughal!!!
An eye opening link as usual....(as usual,i couldn't get the point..LOLZZZZ)
the problem is when you translate the "political success" you find all sorts of disgusting meanings. similarly sincerity means failure in the politics of pakistan.
so if some one says that x is a very successful politician, then it means he is talking about a lowlife thug.
How would you define Imran's Support to Musharraf's Martial Law, PCO Court, and Sham Referendum. Would you call it sincerity of Irman Khan with the masses of Pakistan when even the MQM didn't support that Referendum! Imran [let me refresh your memory about Roedad Khan, he was as well] riaisng slogans the "Revolution" has arrived in Pakistan i.e. 12 Oct 1999. Would you call it sincerity or Intellectual Dishonesty????
@Jawwad
"@ Amir Mughal!!!
An eye opening link as usual….(as usual,i couldn’t get the point..LOLZZZZ)"
That's a good one...;-) ......ROFL.
@Jawwad
"@ Amir Mughal!!!
An eye opening link as usual….(as usual,i couldn’t get the point..LOLZZZZ)"
That's a good one...;-) ......ROFL....cut pastia ;-)
Lol....the Mughal got angry ;-)
Maybe suffering from ADHD=Attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder?
No not at all:) Why should I be angry? It's Basic right to express your opinion: Back to Revolution of Imran:)
Imran Khan hailed PCOed Judiciary!
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2009/08/imran-kha...
Nice Article
The "logical" world of a Mughal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HouseOfStairs.jp...
Btw: You are watching the PPP voters wandering around on the stairs ;-)
Yes we are also watching Imran Khan's supporter wandering around the Political Stairs for "Revolution" from Ishoj Denmark. Imran Khan's Support: Then Musharraf Now Taliban!
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2009/12/imran-kha...
Challenge for Imran Khan was to prove that he can be competitive in the mainstream with the big guys. Based on the unofficial results PTI’s Ijaaz Khan managed to bag 3,105 votes in a constituency with 333,928 registered voters - 0.93% only, which was very consistent with PTI’s performance in the past 14 years since their formation in 1996.
No. of seats
General Elections 1997 0
General Elections 2002 1
General Elections 2008 Boycotted
Bye Elections 2010 Winning Votes PTI Votes
NA 21 Mansehra 36,622 4,582
NA 55 Rawalpindi 63,888 3,105
PF 83 Swat 7,505 3,821
All eyes were set on the results of the NA-55 by-election in Rawalpindi on February 24. PML-N candidate Malik Shakeel Awan won the election by a considerable majority. Sheikh Rashid, chief of the Awami Muslim League, was the runner up. Candidates of the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) and the Jamaat-e-Islami (JI) suffered a humiliating defeat. Editorial: Not so close a contest Friday, February 26, 2010 Daily Times.
Revolution of Imran Khan.
Jibran
I modify my terms for immature minds.
Army and America alliance created this highly charred and armed mullah culture in Extremist Republic Pakistan which is now dominant in Punjab and NWFP area”
They were trained to handle sophisticated weapons, explosives devices and fully funded to trap the poor class (whose main demand is only bread and shelter) under their multiple religious slogans.
Mullahs did exist in our culture before creation of Pakistan but only restricted in premises of a mosque or reciting Quran like activities.
The medressahs in India before Partition were never recorded to spread hatred among any community but only limited to research work on Islamic teaching and history.
They were earning money through teaching of Quran, by treating superstitious myths of ignorant class and for different religious ceremonies.
It was political interest of mafias which helped them in random mushroom like growth and full supply of arms and money were available to them under our strong pseudo religious and political characters and now they have become monsters of state and their teaching houses are considered as place of shedding sins after doing all kinds of crime in outer world , come here, have long beard and start preaching Islam to rest of Muslims who are spared alive through their acts.
Let me give you a glimpse as to how US-PAKISTANI ESTABLISHMENT WORKS: Jundullah and Abdulmalik Rigi was the Creation of US CIA and during Musharraf’s Tenure, read the rest as to how both were being used to destabilize Iran to create Iran-Pak Tension to create hurdle in Iran-Pak-India Gas Pipeline….details….
The Iran Plans by Seymour M. Hersh The Iran Plans
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2009/06/iran-plan...
The Coming Wars by Seymour M. Hersh – What the Pentagon can now do in secret.
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2009/06/coming-wa...
Nazia says: - March 2, 2010 at 12:33 pm jibran I modify my terms for immature minds. Army and America alliance created this highly charred and armed mullah culture in Extremist Republic Pakistan
================
Yes.
جنوبی پنجاب:شدت پسندی کی حقیقت
آخری وقت اشاعت: اتوار, 3 جنوری, 2010, 15:03 GMT 20:03 PST
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2010/01/100103_...
Thanks Mughal
for you all time logical support with professional consideration.
Nazia says: March 2, 2010 at 1:04 pm Thanks Mughal for you all time logical support with professional consideration.
===============
This may also help
Are We to Blame for Afghanistan? By Chalmers Johnson 11-22-04 http://hnn.us/articles/8438.html It should by now be generally accepted that the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan on Christmas Eve 1979 was deliberately provoked by the United States. In his memoir published in 1996, the former CIA director Robert Gates made it clear that the American intelligence services began to aid the mujahidin guerrillas not after the Soviet invasion, but six months before it. In an interview two years later with Le Nouvel Observateur, President Carter’s national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski proudly confirmed Gates’s assertion. “According to the official version of history,” Brzezinski said, “CIA aid to the mujahidin began during 1980, that’s to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan. But the reality, kept secret until now, is completely different: on 3 July 1979 President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And on the same day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained that in my opinion this aid would lead to a Soviet military intervention.”
Charlie Wilson’s War by George Crile during the so-called Afghan Jihad following things did happen;
He told Zia about his experience the previous year when the Israelis had shown him the vast stores of Soviet weapons they had captured from the PLO in Lebanon. The weapons were perfect for the Mujahideen, he told Zia. If Wilson could convince the CIA to buy them, would Zia have any problems passing them on to the Afghans? Zia, ever the pragmatist, smiled on the proposal, adding, Just don’t put any Stars of David on the boxes {Page 131-132}.
Mughal
Your link related to Johnson report is supposed to be truth of century but it was not surprised that it had come out in public after 20 years as Johnson had left his job in 1979.
Who can challenge its authenticity and effectiveness as all stake holders of this war has gone and new faces are controlling the situation.
It is biggest mistake or intentional commitment of leaders of weak nation that they have to follow the orders who would promise them to give Aide.
So what ever plan CIA designed , it can be only executed on the fertile soil of traitors and ever green corrupt leadership.
So these planned war games are requirement of first world to run their billion dollar war industries to sustain their strong economy and history always showed that our leadership are best assistant of super powers in setting up dangerous security standard in their countries.
Aunty Nazia,
"Army and America alliance created this mullah culture which is now dominant in Punjab and NWFP area"
I thought Mullahs existed in subcontinent before Pakistan came into existence and now you have made a rather historic discovery. Can you please elaborate?
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