Rendezvous with Farah Pandith, US Special Rep for Muslim Communities
Last week a few “new media” journalists were invited by the US Consulate to an exclusive meeting with Farah Pandith, who has been recently appointed as the U.S Special Representative for Muslim Communities. The usual bloggeratti excitement was held at bay since the invitation card had a blazing “No-Camera” policy, which had most of us worried concerned about this concerning hush-hush meeting but on the contrary, when we reached the destination we were told it was only a deterrent to avoid the TV &/or Press media fan-fare as the consulate preferred to have a close face-to-face uninterrupted one-on-one discussion, else the meeting was blogable, tweetable and pictures were definitely welcome, immediately putting the anxious team of bloggers at ease and right in their own comfort zone, out came the iPhones, up came the blackberries, twitter clients were fired up and we were ready raring to go.
The guest list had some 10-odd new media journalists, a few from Dawn, of which I had the honor to finally meet Huma Yousuf, the list of bloggers, (or blAAgers [sic]) was the usual fun bunch, ranging from Faisal Kapadia of Deadpanthoughts, Ammar Yasir of Ronin and Tea Break fame, Sana Saleem of Mystified Justice & Dawn Blog, Sabeen Mehmud from T2F, our very own Zaheer Sb from BiTs Online and Windmills of the Mind and last but not the least our celebrity blogger Naveen Naqvi was also in the house, who we now have laid claim to be more of a blogger then a TV personality. The star-studded bloggeratti guest list almost guaranteed an exciting rendezvous with the US Representative for Muslim Communities.
The meeting was slated to have started at 8:15pm sharp but due to a massive traffic jam in Karachi, most of the participants were late, some walked a few kilometers, while many braved the traffic jam sweating away in their cars at the mere thought of having stood up a dignitary from (ohmygosh!) the U.S. To compound our late-arrival stories even our guest of honor was yet the last to arrive definitely an hour late, as she was actually held up in a meeting in an adjacent room where she was busy preaching the ‘unpreachable’, surrounded by a host of mullahs, madrassah leaders and a number of Islamic scholars who had specially come from across the province to meet her.
When Ms Pundit did finally arrive she went around the table to each one of us with individual introductions to finally land up at the head of the table giving us all a short summary of her responsibilities in the capacity of a being a representative of Muslim communities within the State Department. In short, her position was created by Hilary Clinton after President Obama’s Cairo speech, the position is to help Americans better understand the Muslim community and go forth with President Obama’s message of building a stronger degree of respect combined with mutual understanding on a wide ranging issues, combined with a very strong influence towards innovation, entrepreneurship and grass root development, allowing closer interaction between American and Muslim students and scholars alike as a tool to improve the community as a whole
It seemed that Ms. Pundit’s emphasis throughout her 45-minute interaction weighed heavily on the long term solution regarding capacity development, innovation and entrepreneurship with emphasis on the Muslim youth. Without doubt, I believe this is proactive initiative must be fully supported, it may do wonders for many ‘other Muslim countries’ but somehow I feel they need to better understand the actual needs of the people of Pakistan in far more intricate detail before adding fuel to an already enraged fire
Pakistan, is at the verge of a total chaotic implosion, a historically corrupt President running the country, a ravaging Taliban situation on the west, a snapping Indian tiger on the east, numerous undemocratic forces trying to bring havoc from within while it would be unfair to overlook the war mongering attitude of our American compatriots who choose our soil to wage their own War on Terror on our western borders. All this has polarized the entire Pakistani nation to adopt a very antagonistic attitude against America. Whoever needs to be plan the perfect solution for Pakistan, has to first strategize on how to undo the overwhelming negativity against the American government, who rightly or wrongly, is blamed for most of Pakistan’s problems since 9/11
Here comes, Obama’s & Farah Pandith’s message of innovation and entrepreneurship, quite instantly one revolts at the blatant disconnect with an entire Pakistani nation, an elitist assume-it-all-attitude made worse with a sermon from Washington is like throwing a truck load of raw salt on our wounds, such an attitude is bound to irk any self respecting nation and is seen more as a slap on our face, appearing as a bribe to buying slaves in exchange
My honest response out of shear dejection after having listened to the dignitary for a good 40 odd minutes was “I do not know if I will live tomorrow, the day after or let alone live to see the next year, and you are trying to sweet talk me into a 10-year innovation and social entrepreneurship plan – I need food, water, electricity and most of all security in my daily life, the elitist attitude of entrepreneurship and innovation for the youth of Pakistan is a slap on our face and a distant mirage at best”
It seemed the US Special Representative came to lecture, rather then listen to us, the sermon mongering philosophy of ‘I am right, you are wrong’ attitude was again reflective of a serious disconnect between them actually understanding the needs of the people of Pakistan.
What really took most of us as a surprise was her adamant refusal to discuss anything related to the security issues of Pakistan, despite having been repeatedly asked direct questions by Faisal Kapadia, Ammar Yasir and even by myself, in each specific case regardless of what question which was raised she choose to go on an entirely different tangent, circumventing the question entirely.
Issues ranging from the new TSA policy where they specifically screen travelers from fourteen Muslim countries, controversial issue of Muslim women being screened, to a blatant denial of Blackwater in Pakistan by both Hilary Clinton and Anne Patterson only later having a confirmed report of the security agencies presence in Pakistan none other then from the founder Erik Prince himself. The talk of mutual respect and understanding between America and the Muslim Countries seem to fizzle to the background when a web of lies and deceit continue to haunt this relationship.
My rant here is not to ridicule or disrespect the visiting dignitary or cast doubts on her intentions, but to present a from the heart, no-nonsense feedback of my rendezvous with Farah Pandith. Her visionary plans to help improve the situation in Muslim Countries while on one hand must be applauded but I fear a generalized approach will not solve the problems and specifically in Pakistan this undertaking might itself fall flat on its face, unless the US Government makes a serious attempt to “think-outside the box”, adopt a bottoms-up approach, which would probably be the best solution in helping solve Pakistan’s ailments, there is little hope in showering this country with grandiose ideas, only to be gobbled up by the elite and the corrupt politicians lying in wait for the pot of gold.
Here’s to hoping that this visit by Farah does not end up being a mere pencil pushing report to Washington and maybe it’s a first step forward. There is need for more dialog with the common man specially those who have the courage to speak the truth and not sugar coat their opinion in lieu of an American ‘pat-on-the-back’ visa to Disney Land
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@farhan
Is the a question or an answer ?
If question , then i am not from MQM so divert the question to the someone from MQM
If its an observation , currently there has been any "honest" probe into the incident, but surely someone in power is stuck in it so we will never see the truth coming out
MB,
that is why MQM has been targetting Pashtuns in Karachi and thats why Lunda bazar was set on fire, but the mob accidently went on and burnt other shops next to the Lunda bazaar.
try this:
CIA post in Karachi helped catch top guns of Taliban
By Our Correspondent Saturday, 20 Feb, 2010 http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-l...
U.S.-Pakistan cooperation has led to capture of Afghan http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic...
Hey DOC, wakeup , my comment in moderation :)
[ In a letter dated December 21, Wyden asked for greater investigation into private donors and charities in Saudi Arabia and other Persian Gulf countries that have long been a funding source for the Taliban rivaling even the illicit drug trade.
These donors, while operating outside of Afghanistan and Pakistan, inevitably affect the Taliban’s ability to wage armed conflict. Shutting down these funding streams will inhibit the Taliban’s effectiveness and help to make the region safer. ]
- -
[ And while it is difficult to quantify these donations precisely (as the Taliban, after all, do not publish an annual report) it is clear that a large portion of these donations come from private donors and charities in Saudi Arabia and other Persian Gulf countries. Therefore, any strategy for weakening the Taliban should take them into account. Simply put, if these countries are important to the Taliban and other enemies of the US then they must also be important to the United States.
Private donors and charities in the Gulf states have long been a fount of funds for a variety of Islamist terrorist groups around the world. In recent years, the governments of Saudi Arabia and several other Gulf countries have started to recognize the threat posed by al Qaida and other terrorist groups that have conducted spectacular attacks in Arab nations. This has led to some cooperation on counterterrorism efforts targeting al Qaida. But it is clear that there is more work to be done . . ]
for example consider this video :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bEBdtUwaZw
I have no objectioin to what this guy is doing here and i am happy that he is doing something good instead of becoming suicide bomber BUT MY QUESTION is THIS :
Has there lately been a scarcity of copy of QURANs in the word?
Is the MUSLIM population going down in numbers?
Is this our priority in 21st century where MUSLIM are neck deep in poverty and lack of services? no education and health etc.
If you ask this guy (not this guy specifically but people who do this ) to do the same for some hospital or educational institute etc. they have all type of excuses from hectic life and busy schedules to lack of resources etc.
Whats my point is here?
My point is , misplaced priorities
Is this what we all have come in the world? to set a goal to convert x number of men/women into ISLAM ? THATs it ?
Ask ten men/women around you to start a social sector education and health initiative and 9 out of 10 will come up with dozen of excuses. Ask the same people on spreading ISLAM or Dawa , half of them will show interest. Whats this? This is exactly related to what i have said above, the religious leadership of the MUSLIM ummah has over centuries portrayed this WORLD as something of an evil place which is (so called ) temporary and it looks as if our prime objective is to get rid of it quickly get some virgins and some plots in heaven.
This non serious attitude (ye dunia aik aarzi qayam gaah hai) about this BEAUTIFUL world is because of the false preachings of our Ulema, who have nothing to sell except glorifying heavenly dreams (quoting Quran and twisting its interpretations).
How on earth we will join hands with rest of 4.x billion people to make this world beautiful when we are NOT SERIOUS about this world, to begin with.
Who knows where the funding of these good initiatives end up? May be Afghanistan? Somalian Taliban etc ?
just one example :
http://publicmb.wordpress.com/2010/02/09/street-fa...
LOL:) After 12 Oct 1999 specifically Before 911 and bout of Enlightened Moderation, one of the Corps Commander in Musharraf Cabinet had issued a notification that no one will be allowed to jog wearing shorts in any Park linked with DHA/Cantonment Board:)
@Amir Mughal
Dear i completely agree to your "Architect of Strategic Depth" part and there is no doubt about the responsibility that is on our establishment's shoulder (and obviously the USA PLUS the ARAB funding) for creating this evil at first place.
But keep that chapter on one side and consider this only :
I am not talking about the madressah students, i am talking about the madrassah leadership. If i have been used as a tool by someone (establishment and USA in this case) and now my children (madressah students) are found involved in terrorist activities around the world, I SIMPLY CANNOT ABSOLVE My self of the sins saying this was because of the planning by "Architect of Strategic Depth".
My point is the failure of the religious leadership to come out open in fighting these terrorists (assuming for a second that they really consider these acts as terrorism and not JIHAD - a self deceptive justification to do a wrong thing in 21st century by the Mullaz).
The manner in which this religious leadership emphasis so much on ISLAM and its pillars , why do not they put 10% of that effort into mobilizing people (madressah students in this case) this is not JIHAD but utter nonsense and inhumanity. FULL STOP
But NO, they will not do it because this fire (WoT) is what keeping their political shop running well. Its these drones which give them a chance to do jalsaz and protest.
You know what i mean?
The more the Americans prolong this war, the better for Mulla
My bottom line being :
The Mullaz are not serious at first place to finish this game. Isnt this game giving them "SOME" excuse to poke their noses in just about any aspect of our lives, from basant to Music and from jeans to women sports.
USA PLUS the ARAB funding) for creating this evil at first place.
==================
Very little, it seems. Part of the explanation has to be that Britain and the US have of course been carrying out their own assassination campaigns, in violation of the laws of war, in Iraq and Afghanistan. In his new book on secret SAS operations in occupied Iraq, Mark Urban estimates that 350 to 400 were killed in covert British attacks. The Joint Special Operations Command run by General Stanley McChrystal, now US commander in Afghanistan, was responsible for perhaps 3,000 deaths. In Pakistan, US drone assassination attacks are now routinely carried out against Taliban and Al-Qaeda targets, real or imagined. There is no ripping yarn, but a murder to fan more conflict By Seumas Milne Friday, 19 Feb, 2010 http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-l...
We must appreciate the U.S to be the biggest donor to Pakistan for these sixty two years. Majority criticeses the West but we should understand that the grant that comes in has never been utilized properly due to the lack of transparency. E.g Rwp and Isl. Have just water reserve of 150 days . U.S. has given Pakistan 1.4 billion to increase operating capacity of Tarbela dam but no1 has seen any progress till now. Who is to blame? The U.S or the locals?
Reference???
Nazia says: February 19, 2010 at 11:47 am Oh please mughal summarize it in little comment as it is difficult to read in details from your personal point of view.
==============
Dear Ms. Nazia,
The Fun in the above comment is this that I have just compiled published news and duality of Commander, go through it, I just reveal holes in their policy through published news.
That is my point mughal
No religion take humans toward inhuman activities,These are the architects of relgion who do like that.
People says lot of curses to hinduism but when I read in depth it is more humble and docile than lther relgion of the world same I observed in Bhuddasim.
So we should focus on rehabilitation of basic human values and then go for strict Islamic laws.
I agree and this benefit should also be given to Islam.
Nazia says: February 19, 2010 at 11:09 am Last month Kiyani arranged a lavish function in army premises for his only son marriage during this war period where hundreds of his dutiful sons(COAS is virtual father of whole army)are exposed to savages of east which are groomed by our army management.
So don’t push me to show you reality , you would be hurt as you are still living in obsession of imaginary army life
===============================
Here is a glimpse: Jang Group, Neutrality of Commander & Jang Group's Peace with India [Aman Ki Asha] http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2010/01/jang-grou...
Oh please mughal summarize it in little comment as it is difficult to read in details from your personal point of view.
How many rapes/Physical abuses have been done in our spiritual centers,where sometime Pir of hujras get more authority than a legal husband/father of Muslim women, are still untraceable and unaccountable in our history pages.
Mughal
my point is complete with above mentioned praises.
It is likt that west has clearly recorded their crimes in their books and movies through original name and places but In Muslim countries no body dare to accept that what is going on in our hujras of pirs, shiekhs,kings and spiritual leaders whom are controlling/abusing masses on the basis of family name.
Then it is the society and law which are to be blamed not Islam.
Mughal
I am telling you some sleek views of medressahs which are mostly found in our underdeveloped and remote areas.Since the time of zia and on Saudi funding there was mushroom growth of such centerboards where we got parrots of Islam instead of grooming logical intellectuals.
The after effects have been seen in the breed of talibnisation where arms were given to them under state machinery.
Surely I cant cover up whole medressahs for such heinous crimes and same you should not mean that in all churches child abuse was mandatory job of priest.
Again I don't know the references but I read that Elites of Spain suggested Hazrat Omer to change punishment of hand chopping and stoning to death in theft and adultery matters respectively.According to them the public might revolt or react against such punishment which had no link with traditions of Spain.He agreed upon all such advices and there no such punishments were put in practice in civilized culture of Spain.
It was hand chopping due to severe drought in Hijaz and other Areas. [Kunzul Ammal]
The US bombs Muslims, steals Muslim land and resoources, puts brutal dictators/puppets in to rule Muslim countries, AND then Muslims are supposed to go to meet this female US puppet and act like everything is just peachy-keen. SHAME ON ALL OF YOU !!
@Amir aur kuch ???
I hope you still have a lot of references these are not enough
Yes there is more:
Should we condemn pilot as Joseph A. Stack III for this act of madness below or the whole American/Christian or Jewish Community. But had there been any Muslim then there would have been start of quotes [out of context] from Quran and Haidth to witch hunt Islam and Muslims..
Small Plane Crashes Into I.R.S. Building in Texas Smoke billowed from a seven-story building after a small private plane crashed into a building that houses an office of the federal tax agency in Austin, Tex., on Thursday. By SEWELL CHAN Published: February 18, 2010 http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/19/us/19crash.html
@Amir Mughal 24.2
surance, Adult Franchise, Mix Gathering, Co-Education and that too without any veil and lot of other things are strictly against the Teaching of Islam. You don’t ride two boats at the same time.
--------------------
Amir :Shame on you for such a personal attack.
So what is the real grudge here that I am a woman or I live away from Pakistan?
Which country would you approve for my living sir?
because I studied in Co education in Pakistan as well.
Thanks God Islam cannot be confined to your limited imagination and approach.Muslims live in India as well side by side with mandirs what is your fatwa for that sir?
If Muslims would have never traveled outside Arab countries there would have been no Islam in the world as we know it today.
Largest faith of the world and mosques in Europe and USA are not because you want to offer Namaz through Internet in these mosques it is the Muslim community.
Dear Ms. Farrah,
First of all shame on you and shame on you and thoroughly as well because I was replying to Ms. Nazia and didn't name you anywhere.
I am least bothered if any Muslim Girl go to college in Bikini or even indulge in orgy, that's none of my Business. If we are discussing something and if anybody ask a question about Islam then what should I do? Should I seek help from Aamir Liaquat, Ziad Hamid or anyother TV evangelists or consult the Original Sources i.e. Quran and Hadith.
Yes, Islam did spread in the West but when Muslims are so thoroughly being assaulted all over the place by the Imperial Powers then what is the duty of those Muslims [who live in West and pay taxes and it is the Tax Money through which Military is paid] and indirectly Muslims living in the West are helping US WAR EFFORTS against Muslims.
Shame on you again and again and again and again, now read this: Locked Up Alone - Detention Conditions and Mental Health at Guantanamo http://www.hrw.org/en/reports/2008/06/09/locked-al...
If that Link doesn't work then click and read:
Locked Up Alone – Detention Conditions and Mental Health at Guantanamo http://www.defense.gov/pubs/pdfs/App7.pdf
Thanks God Islam cannot be confined to your limited magination and approach.Muslims live in India as well side by side with mandirs what is your fatwa for that sir?
======================
I am very liberal and secular too the core but I don't take cover when it comes to Innocent Human Life and in case of India, read two reports
“We Have No Orders To Save You”
State Participation and Complicity in Communal Violence in Gujarat April 2002 Vol. 14, No. 3(C)http://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports/2002/india/
Poor Muslims of India & Rajinder Sachar Report - 2
http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/2008/11/poor-musl...
Rajindar Sachar was the Chief Justice of High Court of Delhi
Download another report on Pathetic State of Affairs of Mulsim Community in India Complete Sachar Report
Guantnamo conditions put detainees at risk for mental illness
Published: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/11/world/americas/1...
Are even aware of the meaning of Rendition???
U.S. Says Rendition to Continue, but With More Oversight By DAVID JOHNSTON Published: August 24, 2009 - WASHINGTON — The Obama administration will continue the Bush administration’s practice of sending terrorism suspects to third countries for detention and interrogation, but pledges to closely monitor their treatment to ensure that they are not tortured, administration officials said Monday. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/25/us/politics/25re...
Truth Serum: Professor McCoy Exposes the History of CIA Interrogation, From the Cold War to the War on Terror
Professor McCoy Exposes the History of CIA Interrogation, From the Cold War to the War on Terror February 18, 2006 By Alfred McCoy http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/4391
UW-Madison Prof. Alfred McCoy talks about Torture on 9-11 at the Barrymore http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fspXZ9VlsQ
Truth Serum, Torture – Democracy Now Amy Goodman -
Historian Alfred McCoy: Obama Reluctance on Bush Prosecutions Affirms Culture of Impunity http://www.democracynow.org/2009/5/1/torture_exper...
Miss. I Dont Not Know of Islam: Farah Pundit Hired Instead Of Obama's Earlier Pick Dahlia Mogahed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po5tIqLGWpI
Nazia says: February 18, 2010 at 10:34 pm Muslim women, are still untraceable and unaccountable in our history pages
================
Dear Ms. Nazia,
Go through the pages of Hadiths and you may find thousands of Hadiths narrated by Lady Compaions [May Allah be pleased with them] of Prophet Mohammad [PBUH] and many of such narrations are very important to understand Islam.
Afridi
All religions of world revolve around ethics and morality of humans and it has no linked with other species of universe.
So coming under particular faith/domain of any religion means you have become ethically and morally bound to typical religion.
Mughal
I am quite familiar with child abuse events in churches, orphanage and illegitimate relations of popes with nuns . Christians had already accepted their historical crimes like that and lots of novels and movies on real incidents have been come into public on same subject.
This is same as we see child molestation in our mederassh culutre.
Sodomy of young boys are first step of our mullah community before transforming it into suicidal bombers and this unique feature is found in latest version of Islam.
How many rapes/Physical abuses have been done in our spiritual centers,where sometime Pir of hujras get more authority than a legal husband/father of Muslim women, are still untraceable and unaccountable in our history pages
At the time of Holy Prophet even some rapes were recorded in Mosques that is why in most of Arab countries Mosques are locked strictly after each prayer and if found unlocked, the Moazzan can be penalized.
You have more grasp on islamic history than me where you can found that business men of Arabs developed many new kinds of joint ventures to earn the profit more and more.
Logically interests is considered prohibited in Islamic culture if it is utilized to blackmail weak community .It actually damages the spirit of brotherhood which should be stronger at the difficult time of any one who is financially weak than other.
You simply discard my all points which was practically observed in strong Muslim areas.
Sick minded person cant feel the difference between a burqha clad and jean wearing girls.
Get the crime data against women and you would find that rapes are done where women are mostly covered or live in low status than men.
No system in the world is perfect for living.They are monitored by check and balance and margin of modification as per requirement should be part of Islamic society.
I give you one clue why our religion and its scholars keep silence on the legal status of an illegitimate child in our so called Islamic society?
The existence of such beings are reality of Islamic culture for last many decades.
I am still on my words that Islam has defined certain limits to all groups, individuals and working areas.Where ever you go and opt to live, you have to adopt its way of living otherwise you would be declared misfit and you would remain stuck in static mutation process.
We saw many new version of Islamic laws when Hazrat Omer Farooq conquered Spain and nearby areas.There the lawmakers of Spain advised him to change the penalty on qasas and adultery like crimes.History shows that strong administrator and extreme lover of Holy Prophet had accepted their demand and because of this I think Islam had started spreading all over the world.
Dear Ms. Nazia,
I wouldn't deny this but sweeping comment against every Madressah would be gross injustice.
Muslim women, are still untraceable and unaccountable in our history pages At the time of Holy Prophet even some rapes were recorded in Mosques
Dear Ms. Nazia,
That rape was not in the Masjid but a woman was coming to prayers to Masjid was raped [Read Tirmidhi]- And Rapist was properly punished.
Get the crime data against women and you would find that rapes are done where women are mostly covered or live in low status than men.
Islam is not responsible for the misdeeds of Muslim men and women in Muslim society but the Non-Availability of Proper Upbringing and Brought up above all non availability of Law and Order is responsible
We saw many new version of Islamic laws when Hazrat Omer Farooq conquered Spain and nearby areas.There the lawmakers of Spain advised him to change the penalty on qasas and adultery like crimes.
Dear Ms. Nazia,
Please recheck because Spain was conquered during Ummayyads and Hazrat Omar [May Allah be pleased with him] had left Medina for Palestine i.e. a part of Syria then. [Ibn Khaldun]
Two thumps up Mr.Mughal!
I think we are here confusing ethics and morality with religion.
Perhaps.....a good read:
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-l...
Mughal
you say
Insurance, Adult Franchise, Mix Gathering, Co-Education and that too without any veil and lot of other things are strictly against the Teaching of Islam.
Insurance
Dowry for Hazrat fatima by Hazrat Ali,the money at the time of Nikkah, share in inheritance etc what are these.
Do you not consider that all these acts of islamic society comes in kind of insurance from love ones and legal heirs.
Adult franchise.
Even Before Islam Hazrat khadeeja left her two husband and handling lot of male helping hands among whom Holy Prophet was also included and in this way He made her choice and was picked the best for herself.
Even in islamic culture described in our history there is no detail and mandatory concept of arrange and most of Shabas made choices of women on their own basis.So how this was possible without seeing and watching each other acts in normal life styles.
Mix gathering, co education
Have you said your rituals around Kaaba.It is one of unique kind of mix gatherings where even Muslim women many times come in direct physical contact with other strange Muslims during circumambulation of Holy Kaaba.
On my personal experience I found that muslim men intentially try to touch the women during that SACRED but scary and mandatory rituals of Islam .On the other hand I visited some congested Christians congregation and never observed such deliberate erotic acts of non Muslims.
So how can you campare between muslims and non muslim society properly.
I have seen pictures of third generation of my large family circle and found no veil and beard culture , so you people would try to oust us from Islamic society just for not using veil while living in Islamic society among our muslim brothers?
Nazia says: February 18, 2010 at 5:20 pm Mughal
Due to short of time really I feel problem to judge your accurate point of view from your lengthy references.
So what ever I feel is same as you demonstrate that Muslim first become desperate of going and settled abroad in Islamic state and when they achieved their monetary targets they come in the dilemma that their next generation who grow up in multicultural and religious cocktail is not in accordance with them in old times,
===================
Exactly. They first migrate to Non Muslim Countries to ensure better Better Future and then suddenly one fine morning they wake up with an Itch. Therefore my above post was meant for those Sanctimonious Types.
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Nazia says: February 18, 2010 at 5:50 pm Mughal you say
Insurance, Adult Franchise, Mix Gathering, Co-Education and that too without any veil and lot of other things are strictly against the Teaching of Islam.
Insurance: Dowry for Hazrat fatima by Hazrat Ali,the money at the time of Nikkah, share in inheritance etc what are these. Do you not consider that all these acts of islamic society comes in kind of insurance from love ones and legal heirs.
There is difference between Dowry and Interest based Life Insurance [Interest - Suud - Riba is Haram - UNlawful]. If graves are worshiped in Muslim Countries then it will not become Halal - Lawful.
Adult franchise.Even Before Islam Hazrat khadeeja left her two husband and handling lot of male helping hands among whom Holy Prophet was also included and in this way He made her choice and was picked the best for herself.
There is difference between Divorce and Western Election System
Mix gathering, co education: Have you said your rituals around Kaaba.It is one of unique kind of mix gatherings where even Muslim women many times come in direct physical contact with other strange Muslims during circumambulation of Holy Kaaba.
Again there is a difference between Veil Clad Pilgrims of Hajj and Jeans Clad [ooo hot] girls in College/Universities.
On my personal experience I found that muslim men intentially try to touch the women during that SACRED but scary and mandatory rituals of Islam.
It could be an act of individual and whole practice of pilgrimage cannot be blamed.
On the other hand I visited some congested Christians congregation and never observed such deliberate erotic acts of non Muslims.
Do you remember the recent Findings of Child Abuse in Catholic Church. Pope condemns child abuse as 'heinous crime' February 16, 2010 3:37 p.m. EST http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/02/16/pope.ch... Irish Church accused of abuse cover-up Page last updated at 17:57 GMT, Thursday, 26 November 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8381119.stm Paedophilia in the Catholic Church by Angus Stickler http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/reports/archive/...
Did Izzzzrael approve her visit to Pakistan? If not, Obama is going to be spanked with the Zionist whip = the ever-present and desperate "anti-semitism" accusation.
Mughal
Due to short of time really I feel problem to judge your accurate point of view from your lengthy references.
So what ever I feel is same as you demonstrate that Muslim first become desperate of going and settled abroad in Islamic state and when they achieved their monetary targets they come in the dilemma that their next generation who grow up in multicultural and religious cocktail is not in accordance with them in old times,
My Point of leaving western land and never given a second thought of settling there is same as you said that if I want my normal islamic living style then why I live here.
Although I know principally their rules of civic life is very close to principles of Islam but no way I can practice even my simple way of living there.
I really enjoyed the life styles of some Muslims who even live in Burkha culture while living in liberal society or love to toast and dance in dinners but cant leave their daughters in the custody of boy friend even they reach at the age of 18.
I also enjoy when these foreign migratory muslims are desperate of knotting ties of their west grown siblings with local desi breed at all costs.
I still cant reach to depth and practicality of such unmatched marriages planned by experienced people.
The economic set back and lack of job opportunities in Muslim countries are genuine reason of migration and one should then sacrifice its religious priorities for normal survival in western land.
Farah jani
My agenda is very simple be Pakistani, use Pakistani resources, bring change in corroded system ,live here and die here.
You see a very simple magnanimity is lying behind my agenda.
I am living in critical area of Pakistan where after each half a mile a terrorist activity has been done.My roads are decorated with name of shaeeds and still we are clueless where we are heading towards.
I am treating in my own country as state enemy in all check posts or entry points of any buildings.
I am not considering you any kind of elite but you have surely some link with army life and if I am not wrong you came in category of working and literate class of Pakistan who are fed up of temperament of Pakistani relatives and feel comfortable in living in polished western culture.
I am quite contrary to you.I love my complicated family system which some time become very messy due to versatility in human attitude.I enjoyed its ups and downs.I enjoyed street life of Pakistan.I feel comfortable if I on the spot insult the corrupt person of my society doing something wrong in his office or in public affairs.
You can say I have full penetration in my local culture.
But after Musharraf regime one thing I badly felt that I have lost my peace of mind due to high insecure factors roaming in front of me whenever I come out side of my house.
US polices and its collaboration with our army is leaving catastrophic affects on our simple daily lives.
To which Mullahs farah wants to meet who are recognized as hypocrite of our society or whom are desperate of US funding for modifying their mission of terrorism.
Our govt are running its affairs on short term basis where targets are personal goals rather than serving the country so this is basic reason of our downfall.
People opt to live abroad already change their objectives of life by selecting other safe destination. Their only interest is developed toward back when their next generation also leave them for same purpose which once they adopted after leaving their love ones and homeland or could be last desire to bury in original soil.
So those people have no use of me and my country as they only come to Pakistan if same kind of living or more sumptuous ways are available to them.Otherwise living in west and thinking for east is kind of unpractical complex of migratory birds.
You say US is engaging us in dialogs???
After 7 years of war atrocities even Hitler killed himself or might be killed as people around him knew that he could have started dialogs before mass murders/destruction.
by the way I am sure dialogs options are only given to Afghanistan and for you they are escalating army network for giving lesson to Iran.After her destruction they would feel comfortable along with Saudis and Israels .
So I again emphasis on my point that she can get the feed back and data of few greedy groups but nothing she can perceive what is actually going on with real victims of war.
Nazia
kind of elite but you have surely some link with army life and if I am not wrong you came in category of working and literate class of Pakistan who are fed up of temperament of Pakistani relatives and feel comfortable in living in polished western culture.
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Such a personal attack for me being supportive of Pakistan army.
anyway Good luck with your very personal opinion about me.
But I do support all institutions of Pakistan and I want to see the change in Pakistan as well .I have a right to vote in Pakistan and an opinion with regard to political process in Pakistan.
I have never witnessed such contempt for a Shaheed in any Muslim society as seen in your writing.
By the way connected to Pakistan army is not a sin.It is a matter of pride.
Shahed ki jo maut hai woh quam ki hayaat hai.
Farah
I think while reading my comments you eat strong green chillies, and its bitterness come in your tone.
I don't know where I made personal attack on you .I just behold my poor observation on your living status through your words.If you think I am wrong then declare with logic instead of aggressive remarks.
You have full rights to support any institutes of Pakistan and I also have full rights to show you my reservations in this discussion forum.
We are not here to forcefully impose our concepts and practical experience on each other but just sharing in light mood.
I cant think of any kind of contempt on our shaeeds and ghazis which you feel as I belong to family who is honored to have such price less pearls with proud.
But no doubt I am highly against this war on terror where we are loosing our real soldiers for nothing.
Each day our number of widows and young orphans are increasing due to worst planning and law and order situation in whole countries.
I am quite aware of pain of young widows and orphan childern of our society so I would react to all action which would create more circumstances around me.
In my opinion this shaeed slogan is being misused by out coward and corrupt military management to console the heart of bereaved families.I am fully aware that how senior officers using their influence are picking their sons. nephews and known soldiers from the war duties and sending them in safe areas.Even letters are also written to kiyani from junior officers that they were on lower rank in list for sending in war areas but above them all have been shifted to other assignments and let them to front line.
Kiyani never bothered to probe such genuine complains.He himself granted many unreasonable allowance to seniors officers so that they cant go to critical war areas and another lucrative jobs are arranged for kiyani blue boys in army organization.
Last month Kiyani arranged a lavish function in army premises for his only son marriage during this war period where hundreds of his dutiful sons(COAS is virtual father of whole army)are exposed to savages of east which are groomed by our army management.
So don't push me to show you reality , you would be hurt as you are still living in obsession of imaginary army life
Dear Nazia
You can keep working against the US agenda and Pakistan army agenda and social class agenda but please present me what is your agenda.
You have criticized and discussed everything from NGOS to USA and Europe economic condition but have not provided a single solution and way forward for Pakistan .
You have also considered me as if I am an elite ...or belong to military or because I live abroad only that is why people like Farrah P can help me (abroad ) but not in Pakistan.
Why in Pakistan you need something else or more than human being to convey your point of view??????
I am shocked???
But the matter of fact is thanks God Farrah P had met the Mullahs I think that will prove more fruitful as far as educated elites of Pakistan are concerned they cannot think clearly or pin point the problems and have no solutions .
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Everyone is wrong from Government to Mullahs to army to NGOS to USA and people living abroad for God sake how can this be
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USA is engaging in dialogue now what is on your agenda why are you frustrated and what upsets you .
USA cannot solve what Zardari has signed ?You have to sort it out.
USA cannot sort out Mullah you have to sort it out.
USA cannot sort out NGO's funds you have to sort it out.
Please do contribute a story on a sham NGO.
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I am positive about this unless I see it backfire in some way?? I think and hope these bloggers are sane minds of Pakistan and they want to see a positive and progressive Pakistan if their contact with Farrah P conveyed her even one thing about Pakistan and even if that is at this point that she can talk to public representatives out of parliament that is great.
Farah
Foreign settled Muslims are badly in need of such representatives to upgrade their communication level with western community which has been deteriorated since war has been started in Muslim areas.
Muslims have opted to live in western culture owing to their fair system and for having better financial opportunities,here they feel no religious constraints which they badly feel while they move in Muslim countries or their original homeland.
So such kind of representing might be requirement of western settled Muslims but no way can create improvement what is going on in our side on the name of war on terror.
Th last trip of Clinton to Pakistan gave us some hope that in her direct interaction with public, she might be able to estimate the mood of literate class but time showed nothing is done like that.
During her visit, a huge blast in Peshawar market which killed more than hundred victims and thousand handicapped even didn't touch her heart and she kept her busy in lavish dine and dinners with elite ruling class.
Their only interest lies groups/people like you and our ruling class which keep them busy in buying and selling business all the time.
The days are passing and each day is bringing more US movements within Pakistan territory.We even don't believe what our rulers and working generals are saying to US.
Things are more worst than your speculation.
American army with different names like black water, dyn corps, marines are spreading their network in Pakistan as planned activity and this year mess of same type of drone attacks and civilian suicidal attacks would be started in quetta.
When I was out of country, my feelings were quite different but when I came here and collect my observation from streets and areas of Pakistan, situation was almost reversed.
Now about NGO. In US this proverb is enough to understand their real culture that there is no free lunch .So why they give you surplus supplies of dollar for development and social work.
In US there are extreme joblessness situations, food inflation and downsizing of govt and private employees so why they would transfer their hard money to such dandy groups.
Have you ever heard that US picked social group like edhi, fatmid,sangi like devoted organization for their huge plans.
Try to get some data that where in last 20 years the US donations were diverted, they are either directed to pocket of bureaucracy or in army's personal account.
Show me one mega project of US aide which is actually benefiting the people of deprived areas as per standard of US living in Pakistan.No doubt through such donations our political representatives, generals and bureaucrats have started huge business ventures in this period and nation is now living wihtout power, gas, water and even food in one of largest agriculture areas of the world.
Nazia says: February 18, 2010 at 11:32 am Farah Foreign settled Muslims are badly in need of such representatives to upgrade their communication level with western community which has been deteriorated since war has been started in Muslim areas. Muslims have opted to live in western culture owing to their fair system and for having better financial opportunities,here they feel no religious constraints which they badly feel while they move in Muslim countries or their original homeland.
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Dear Ms. Nazia,
Foreign Settled Muslims if talk of Islam then they must leave West by following the Clear instructions in Quran and Sunnah.
My humble opinion is as under.
Secular Democratic - Anglo Saxon system and Islam are two different systems and instead of perverting both [i mean mixing it] one must choose between either one of them.
If those who are living in West and enjoying Lucrative Jobs in Purely Infidel Setup and that too an Infidel Military Setup, and also have "ITCH" for Islam then Quran and Hadith should be ultimate for them. They should go back to their Islamic "Home Country" and start living in Muslim Society and should sacrifice Green Bucks and Social Security.
Those who want to observe Islam, Veil and Islamic Culture should come back and live in Afghanistan and Northern Areas of Pakistan.
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ تَوَفَّاهُمُ الْمَلآئِكَةُ ظَالِمِي أَنْفُسِهِمْ قَالُواْ فِيمَ كُنتُمْ قَالُواْ كُنَّا مُسْتَضْعَفِينَ فِي الأَرْضِ قَالْوَاْ أَلَمْ تَكُنْ أَرْضُ اللّهِ وَاسِعَةً فَتُهَاجِرُواْ فِيهَا فَأُوْلَـئِكَ مَأْوَاهُمْ جَهَنَّمُ وَسَاءتْ مَصِيرًا
Lo! as for those whom the angels take (in death) while they wrong themselves, (the angels) will ask: In what were ye engaged? They will say: We were oppressed in the land. (The angels) will say: Was not Allah's earth spacious that ye could have migrated therein? As for such, their habitation will be hell, an evil journey's end; [AN-NISA (WOMEN) Chapter 4 Verse 97]
Prophet Mohammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I disown every Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen.” [Sunnan Abu Dawood]
It is obligatory to migrate from the kaafir lands to the Muslim lands for those who are able to do that, if they are unable to practise their religion openly.
Ibn al-‘Arabi al-Maaliki said: Hijrah (migration) means leaving dar al-harb [non-Muslim lands] and going to dar al-islam [Muslim lands]. This was obligatory at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and remains so after his time for those who fear for their lives. From Nayl al-Awtaar, 8/33, by al-Shawkaani.
Al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar said concerning the hadeeth, “I disown every Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen”:
This is to be understood as referring to those who are not safe to practise their religion there. Fath al-Baari
Undoubtedly the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) did not compromise in matters of his religion. When he was in Makkah, before the Hijrah, he used to pray openly, whilst they were looking on. After the Muslims became a distinct community, a specific style of dress was ordained for them, and they commanded to forsake anything else that was a symbol of kufr and was distinctive to the kuffaar, because this is imitation, and whoever imitates a people is one of them.
Insurance, Adult Franchise, Mix Gathering, Co-Education and that too without any veil and lot of other things are strictly against the Teaching of Islam. You don't ride two boats at the same time.
I totally disagree with the blogger's deliberations. "I need food, shelter, education, don't know I would be alive till tomorrow"?? Are we beggars? Do we look others for our survival? Was that a right forum to present our miseries and expect some dollars? I am all ashamed of myself. Let me tell you loud and clear, nations are not built on donations. Look at China, I need not to tell in so many words how China developed and became economic tycoon of the world. How to make Pakistan a prosperous Pakistan and a nation that is standing on her feet is a million dollar question. If our media has such thinking and keep on giving dozage of hate USA and do nothing on our own, I think we are heading towards wrong direction. While the countries are moving ahead with their untiring efforts, we are sleeping.
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