Peoples Resistance: Protest against Army Brutality
Location: Karachi Press Club
Date: Tuesday 7th October, 2009
Time: 5:00 PM
The People’s Resistance strongly condemns the Army brutality captured on video recently as illegal and despicable behaviour on the basis of violation of the understanding of our human rights and our laws.
In no sense can this strong condemnation be understood as support of the Taliban. Lets not fail to remind ourselves what else the fight was about besides army action. The fight was against violent intolerance and deluded religious bigotry. It was also long overdue. We are glad it happened. This behaviour, and that not shown in the video, is intolerable and will undoubtedly help in making a Taliban comeback.
Our cause is the extension of civil society, not brutal behaviour, the extension of civil methods, not illegal indefensible torture through indiscipline inside Pakistan Army.
As Citizens of Pakistan, we want our soldiers, big and small, to set the record straight.
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"Tumharey jaisey chotie-ey phir bhee Pakistani Fauj, Pakistani Fauj hee kartey rahengay...."
laugh out loud...
Salman,
kash dukan per aqal biktee hotee to tumharey liey main khareed-lata.....
Pakistani Fauj main sarey kai sarey Haram-zadey nahee hain, 5% mulk kai wafadar bhee hain. Magar unkee wafaa kaa kiaa achar dalaingey jab baqeee kai 95% poorey mulk kee bajaa rahey hain?
Iss video main yai jin logon kee durgat bana rahey haain woh bhee tumhareee tarhaa Pakistani Fauj, Pakistani Fauj hee kartey they......Abb sarkar nai inkey sir mang liey aur Pakistani Fauj ko paisey bhee theek thaak miley to Pakistani Fauj nai inheee ko bechdiaaa.
Baat sirf Paisey kee hai, kal tumharey khalee-sar kaey bhee kuch paisey milengay to Na-Pak fauj tumhain bhee bech degee.
Pakistani Fauj ko sirf paisey bana-ney kee dhunn hai. Martey hain to chotey motey sipaheee. Haram Khour Generals to apney qilon main aur apnee mercedez-benz main hifazat kai sath ghoomtey phirtey hain....Aur jab aag barhey gee to yai apney bachey laiker gher mumalik main apnee properties ko sambhalaingey...aur achey golf courses per practice karengay....
Tumharey jaisey chotie-ey phir bhee Pakistani Fauj, Pakistani Fauj hee kartey rahengay....
Pakistan Army is the only institution in country which is a sign of integrity and unity among the fellow men...
Its the only institution which is the representative of every part of country!
Pakistan Army Good job and keep killing the bastards!
The people of Pakistan dont deserve a seperate country with a strong gov nd army! its due to Pakistan Army that u njoy sleep and the army protects ur borders when india try to threatens....
but there are some shamless Pakistanis who dont deserve it!
as far as the video is concerned..... here it goes....
http://paknpak.com/pakistan-army-vs-human-rights-d...
albert,
bhi kiaa aaj nashtey main ghanss khaee thee?
kion bahkee bahkee batain kar rahey ho?
yaa pagal khaney kaa darwaza lock karnaa bhool gaey log?
pagal hay ..pagal hay....pagal hay!!
some body call a doctor!
a nut case here...
you bloody shameless beggar ,dont you know how to read english
i have told pakistanis to stop entertaining you ,as i feel our issue is not a concern to you its just a time pass ,anyway I dont want to change the topic of this disscusion.you are a shameless beggar who as not answered my question ,go there is a coin fallen in a shit ,the coin is yours if you remove in your tongue and that shit is a saudis shit which you like the most go ahead dont waste time or u r bosses will be angry .ha ha aha ha ha ha ah aha h aha ha
hahahahahhahahahahahhhhhhahahahah
oohohohohohohohohohohohohohoh
hhihihihiihihihihihihihihihiii
@albert!
your stupidity is now touching the new hights of amusement.
no body is talking to me...every one is expressing his views on current issues.
you are welcome to express your views.....if you have any...hahahahhahahahahahahahahaha
why you guys are even talking to this dr.jawwad khan he does not have any moral right to talk about whats happening in our country ,he is busy licking boots of saudi cos they are giving him more money ,I asked him a question ,which is more important for him earning money or serving our people and he gave me a bullshit answer of foering exchange and shit ,
our issues is a entertainment for him ,cos he can not do anything entertaining in that country he blogs on this site this is a cheap beggar who is behind money and he does not have a moral.please refrain from entertaining this beggar how is behind money ,if there is a coin in a shit and you tell him you can get it if you remove from u r tounge he will do it.jawwad I hope this is what u deserve ,I will stop pestering this guys but I want a answer from him ,the question is ,what is important for him serving our poor people or earning money ,can he come back to pakistan now and serve the people of his country where he was born ,where he did his education ,from where he got his MBBS degree from
can you answer this jawwad ,you guys are the witness to this ,just see the answer of this learned man ,how he abuses me and how he turns his back on the question and who he changes the topic.I hate lossers like this who do nothing for our nation and shed crocodile tears
hummmmmm!!! then you must be a rich man!
BTW, Amir Mughal, when are you getting a plot from Zardari? or they don’t find you published-enough? [aflatoon]
======================
Dear Sir,
Dont you know that Oil and Gas Fields in Badin - Sindh have already been allotted to me. My next traget to get the lease of Lahore's Fort because Zardari has also said that Lahore Fort should go back to its rightful owner.
Try to write like me you may get some contract for the new GHQ being built in Islamabad.
From the long war journal
http://www.longwarjournal.org/threat-matrix/archiv...
The note below was written by Agha H. Amin, a retired cavalry officer in the Pakistani Army currently working for a power transmission company in Afghanistan. Mr. Amin provides a scathing look at the Pakistani military and its inability to quickly and effectively respond. The military’s authority has eroded and is no longer feared by enemies within the state, Mr. Amin argues, and the effectiveness of the terrorist assault and the poor response of the unit guarding the headquarters and the officers within make the military look weak. Here goes:
The attack on Pakistani GHQ [General Headquarters] raises more serious questions about Pakistan Army’s military effectiveness and potency than answers.
The most crucial and grave question is that the Pakistani military seems to have lost in a great degree its coercive value and moral deterrence. Something which is the foundation of any political system and on which all agree starting from Freud, Aristotle, Plato down to Marx, Lenin, Mao, and Khomeni.
Once General Musharraf decided to make a U turn under coercion by USA the army lost its moral credibility in the eyes of a large section of Pakistani populace, not the majority but a sizeable minority far more effective in tangible potency than a far larger minority.
The first most serious question is not from where the threat originated but how did a small minority of a few handpicked young men developed the resolution to attack the citadel of Pakistani military, the GHQ ? Its an intangible question but far more serious than whether these men had their organisational centre in Waziristan or Afghanistan.
The second serious question is the response to the attack.Or one may say the lack of response !
If ten or so armed men can terrorise and paralyse a half a million plus army’s headquarter for 22 plus hours the issue is strategic rather than tactical ! If ten civilians trained by irrational mullahs can penetrate a citadel hitherto considered impregnable and impenetrable and 1600 officers inside it are like chicken in a barbed wired coup at mercy of ten armed and highly motivated men then the situation is grave, not routine. A witness states that the attackers held some 4 to 6 officers from major to colonel rank hostages and also offered them their dry rations.This shows that the attackers wanted to deliver a message and did not want to inflict fatalities on the Pakistan Army.
In a nutshell the serious aspects of the issue are :--
1. The most serious threat to Pakistan is internal and not external.
2. The military has lost its strategic and coercive deterrent value.
3. That ten armed civilians penetrated a military headquarters guarded by an infantry battalion and a similar number of DSG soldiers [Defense Security Guards] is a serious strategic imbalance.
4. That 6 plus armed men were roaming the GHQ for many hours and had the opportunity to kill many generals, an opportunity that they for some mysterious reasons chose not to exercise is a cause of grave strategic concern.
5. The fact that the perimeter guarding battalion 10 Punjab although it killed some four intruders failed to hold the few attackers from penetrating the GHQ is a grave matter.
6. The fact that the battalion plus DSG soldiers although armed with G 3 and SMG rifles just bolted away is a grave matter.
7. The fact that it took more than 18 hours and the fact that SSG troops had to be brought from some 70 miles away to redeem the situation is ironic par excellence.
8. The fact that Pakistan’s enemies both state and non state are so ineffective still is the only consoling part of the issue.
Here is a case of a military machine :--
1. Fighting a civil war with serious internal fractures.
2. A military machine which has lost a great degree of its coercive value.
3. Lack of initiative in the officer rank and lack of forethought in not allowing the some 1600 officers in GHQ not to carry weapons.
4. The primacy of non state actors in Pakistan.
Sad is the story. Hilarious are the praises being heaped on the military’s response. Where is the honour and dignity of danger in overcoming six well motivated irregulars by a commando force outnumbering them by 100 to 1. This is not a criticism. I am not a paid journalist. This is a call for reflection .Serious reflection and serious inner thinking that may be the spur to serious reorganisation in the Pakistani military. The enemy is not in Waziristan or Afghanistan. The enemy is our own damn inefficiency and complacency. It merits serious thinking at all plains, tactical, operational and strategic.
Aamir Mughal,
Probably it was Nazir Naji Group who informed Musharraf that Nawaz party was going to charge him...this is the same journalist who enjoyed the warm lap of Army and their kronies.
and it was Nazir Naji who was caught cashing his loyalties by aquiring plot through Govt.
BTW, Amir Mughal, when are you getting a plot from Zardari? or they don't find you published-enough?
Guys, kind of busy lately. will catch in few days meanwhile amir and crew can pretty much handle the TRUTH side :)[MB]
===================
Aqeel alias Dr Usman, the GHQ attack mastermind previously arrested and released
@awaam: stop listening to nur jahaan and wake up. the days of the "mard-e-mujahid" are long over.
sick of this deluded mentality. just wish i had a switch to turn off this factory of lies, the so-called "free" press and news channels ("geo jhoot kay saath" and the rest). they are as unprofessional and pathetic as it can get.
the present crisis is as serious as it can get, and its leading pakistan to nowhere. we don't have sufficient resources of our own to fight multiple insurgencies (balochistan, nwfp) at the same time. The result will be ever-increasing dependance on foreign aid. The more we are indebted to our foreign masters, the deeper we will be sucked in this quagmire. common sense says that if the US can't afford it in Afghanistan, how can we afford an endless war with a fragile economy. the US can pull out, pack its luggage and leave whenever it deems appropriate, we don't have that option. Its better late than never. Its wiser to distance ourself from the american-led war now than turn this beloved country of ours in to a south-asian rwanda. By the time the Americans pack off from this region, they won't be interested in providing us any Marshall plan, their own coffers are running dry. Put Pakistan first and to hell with a declining super-power.
will Pakistan Army wake up?
Guys, kind of busy lately. will catch in few days
meanwhile amir and crew can pretty much handle the TRUTH side :)
I am so glad that young middle class urbanites are also getting the clear message . I am so glad that you guys are not deluded anymore , that you wont just support an institution just because you grew up listening to the songs of its support . I am glad that you guys have the urge to know history other than the textbook of Pakistan history . Oh I am so glad that I see some sense to distinguish between the rights and wrongs .
The army of Pakistan , just like the army of Algeria , Turkey and Egypt are pawns of US Hegemony . This seems like such an overstated statement that people begin to doubt its authenticity . But dont ! .
The only argument that army lovers have is that we need the army , every one knows that army is a requirement for a state like water and food . But why this army ? Why an army that is not working on your interest ? Why an army that has led to oppressive tyranny and is a part of all loathsome activities ! Why this army ?
An army is no good if it cant fight foreign elements , give me one good example where Pakistani army has turned out to be successful ? If it wasnt for diplomacy or Pakistan's everlasting subjugation to western designs Pakistan would have long gone be conquered by any force , let it be india or iran or even afghanistan .
So an army that cant fight anyone but innocent civilians . What is it good for ?
I mean if we just have to depend upon US's sympathy , why then need an army ? Why cant we be like Saudia Arabia ?
Attack on GHQ ........
Was a warning .People of Pakistan have a choice,shun your army and accept Talibaan rule.
Afghanistan and Paksitan will be a great specimen of Islamic brotherhood.
Or they can stand behind the army and fight Talibaan?
Before making the decision they must imagine life ,while living with Pakistan army in the Cantts
Or do they prefer a wonderland like Kabul?
There are two institutions functioning in Pakistan:
Pakistan army and Mullah
Both will be distroyed by its own people and followers.
Fantastic Amir Mughal
The patiance and to bring up the facts.
-----------
Majority of Pakistani people just live in the vaccums.Their politics ,religion and every day reality are all in separate boxes.
We think little and at our best we just become angry ,shout,yell ,brake the stuff and than we loose of course but we have to blame someone for our failures ;now the politicians have given us a scape goat ;Pakistan army.
I am not trying to protect army but army is the strongest defence system of any country.
Before the use of shamefully abused word DEMOCRACY let the politicians come up with one political system.
I am so confused;
Mr.Bhutto was chief Martial Law Administrator
He was the president
He was the prime minister
Now Benazir was Prime Minsiter ,Zardari from the same party wants to stay President.
Ask the Shriefs,they would like to be the Presidents as well.
Kerry Lugar bill is the first issue which has been discussed by the people and in the assembly but it seems it will go ahead.........against the public wishes.....
So which Democracy people talk about in Pakistan.
The struggle of Nawaz,Zardari,Benazir and the Judiciary was great struggle but how did it change the human condition or improved the circumstances of the poor .
It is most apt to say it was their struggle for power not for people.
-------
Mr Aitzaaz Ahsan ,wrote the tarans and sang them as well fighting for justice,if it was humanitarian movement where is he now?????
-------
Civil movements have to be run by people of substance ,not by oppertunists and sadly Pakistan has a system where only teh oppertunists can progress and come forward.
--------
IS it not true to say it is TALIBAN sort of Democracy in Pakistan,at least the people with heavey muscle and deep pockets can come only into politics .....I see no difference in the strategy of both .......
PUT UP or Shut up or else we have got the guns.
Minor Correction in the link:
I give below verbatim (parenthesis mine) an exact copy, but slightly abbreviated, of a Top Secret but now declassified (vide NND 959417 14/1/93) letter written by Gen Mohammad Ayub Khan, C-in-C of the Pakistan Army, to Admiral Arthur Radford, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff, Pentagon [sic], Washington D.C.
7) they have a superiority complex against the civilians(many of us have a personal experience) and they show extreme degree of inferiority complex when it comes to america. [Dr Jawwad Khan]
=======================
Correct!
Our Rommels and Guderians are not about to alight from their top of the line BMWs and Mercedes and climb into Suzuki Mehrans.
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-l...
I give below verbatim (parenthesis mine) an exact copy, but slightly abbreviated, of a Top Secret but now declassified (vide NND 959417 14/1/93) letter written by Gen Mohammad Ayub Khan, C-in-C of the Pakistan Army, to Admiral Arthur Radford, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff, Pentagon [sic], Washington D.C. (Please read at http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/pakistan/ayubkhan27s...)
8) tendency of use of bruital force against its own people on the issues which could be solved by negotiations. akbar bugti is a near past example tell me what are the arguments in the defence of pakistan army? [Dr Jawwad Khan]
========================
Professionalism at its best!!!!
فوجی بغاوت کی یاد: تصاویر
بارہ اکتوبر کی یاد
Wednesday, 7 october, 2009, 13:37 GMT 18:37 PST
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/india/2009/10/091012_pic...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/indepth/cluster_coup_10y...
’بتایا تھا وزیراعظم کو موقع نہیں ملے گا‘
علی سلمان
بی بی سی اردو ڈاٹ کام، لاہور
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2009/10/091009_...
نذیر ناجی بغاوت کے وقت وزیراعظم کے تقریر نویس تھے
پاکستان کے معروف کالم نگار نذیرناجی نے کہا ہے کہ بارہ نومبر سنہ انیس سو ننانوے کو پاکستان کے وزیراعظم میاں نواز شریف اپنی تقریر میں چیف آف آرمی سٹاف پرویز مشرف کو بھارت سے امن عمل کو تباہ کرنے کی چارج شیٹ جاری کرنے والے تھے لیکن انہیں قوم سے خطاب سے قبل ہی گرفتار کرلیا گیا۔
نذیر ناجی ان افراد میں شامل ہیں جنہیں بارہ اکتوبر سنہ ننانوے کو فوجی بغاوت کے بعد وزیر اعظم ہاؤس سے گرفتار کیا گیا اور انہیں پوچھ گچھ کے طویل عمل سےگذرنا پڑا۔
Accidents happen, who opposed Musharraf and Just like the other Kiyani (who opposed Musharraf in a famous CSS officers case)[Junaid]
==========================
Dear Junaid Saha,
Jamshed Gulzar Kiyani never opposed Musharraf rather he was part and parcel of Musharraf Package [if you are deceived by his last days TV Programs against Musharraf then dont be deceived because these programs were Eye Wash]
Jamshed Gulzar Kiyani did get Prize Posting during Musharraf's Tenure and he number 2 in ISI when that Damn Kargil happened.
The real reason behind this sudden love of Lt General Retd. Jamshed Gulzar Kiyani for Constitution, Civil Liberties, Democracy, Rule of Law, and Independent Judiciary in Pakistan is nothing but Monetary Benefits for the Ex Servicemen Society and hiding the Criminal Past of many in Servicemen Society. These men have earned Millions if not billions under the same General Musharraf whom they want to try for treason. General Jamshed never mentioned Operation Cleanup in Baluchistan [aren't these Baluchs Pakistanis? and by mistake they also happen to be Muslims as well] particularly the Extra Judicial Killing of Sardar Akbar Bugti [if he was guilty then he should have been put on trial even in the Military Court]. General Jamshed restricted himself to Lal Mosque and Kargil [isn't Baluchistan in Pakistan?], why? Does military training snatch the sense of history, passion, and mercy.
"QUOTE"
Dr. Ayesha Siddiqa Agha [Defence Expert]
The wannabe heroes By Ayesha Siddiqa June 13, 2008 Friday Jamadi-us-Sani 08, 1429
So, the onlookers have to be careful in distinguishing between the need to investigate the Kargil crisis and the actual intent of people like Gen Jamsheed Gulzar Kiyani and others in telling the story now. The good general sat silent all these years enjoying his stint as head of Fauji Foundation’s company Marri Gas and then as the chairman of the Federal Public Services Commission. The question is that why didn’t he ask any question then? The retired officers defended the economic, political and social power of the armed forces and defended the organisation’s control of the state. They even mentioned the military’s right to ten per cent jobs as granted by the constitution which is an absolute fallacy. The ten per cent quota was granted by Gen Ziaul Haq and is mentioned in the Establishment code of the government and not in the constitution.
"UNQUOTE"
Anjum Niaz, Columnist Daily Dawn - Pakistan.
DATELINE ISLAMABAD: Angry old men [June 15, 2008, Daily Dawn Sunday Magazine] By Anjum Niaz
An ex-servicemen society has been launched. Alas, a watering hole has been provided for these endangered species who fear extinction unless they strut about and flap their tired old feathers trying to make waves.
Do men have a bad hair day? The four I watched last week on television certainly appeared as having one. Getting into each other’s hair, the quartet exposed itself to being men of straw and not steel as they have always tried portraying themselves.
Bereft of uniform and all the trappings that go with an army general, they came across churlish, even infantile. Why do retired generals get hardened and macabre? Why do their eyes turn flinty and laser hate, venom and anger? Why do they dye their hair boot-polish black? Why do they blow dry it? Why do some (Pervez Musharraf and Rashid Qureshi) wear their hair in a bouffant while Gulzar Jamshed Kiani prefers a funny mop that sits uncannily on his forehead?
Looks aside, what’s in a name? Plenty! President Musharraf and his spokesman, hawk-eyed General (retd) Qureshi beat one point to death last week: why had Jamshed Gulzar (JG) decided to add the suffix Kiani after his name? Both said that since the real McCoy was a Kayani, as in Army Chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, JG of late started calling himself JGK! Imagine the ‘impudence!’ Musharraf went to the extent of saying that this chap who is now calling for Musharraf’s impeachment came from a humble background and it’s the army that gave him distinction. JG must not forget his pedestrian antecedents. Ahem… Musharraf himself comes from a similar background.
The last general under discussion is Hamid Gul. He always looks and acts very angry. What’s his problem? Other than making umpteen TV appearances and putting himself on a pedestal, high above everyone else, what great service has this general done ever since he left the army? Sinister things happened when he was at the helm. Sketching doomsday scenario is all this one can do.
An ex-servicemen society has been launched. Hurrah and three cheers! Alas, a watering hole has been provided for these endangered species who fear extinction unless they strut about and flap their tired old feathers trying to make waves. Leading this retired pack are retired generals Faiz Ali Chisti (whose name sent shivers down our spines during Zia days); Aslam Beg (an arrogant iconoclast) and Asad Durrani (slippery as an eel).
These men have skeletons rattling in their cupboards and the one who has threatened to open up their cupboards to show us the skeletons is none other than Pervez Musharraf. He says it’s a long tale consuming “weeks of revelation” on these ‘unsavoury’ characters and the ‘dirty role’ they played while in service.
high ranking army officers are involved in corruptions much bigger then corruption of asif zardari.all the valueable lands are under control of retired army officers.[dr jawwad khan]
========================
Jawwad Sahab is correct to the hilt:
Soiled Hands: The Pakistan Army's Repression of the Punjab Farmers ...
www.hrw.org/reports/2004/pakistan0704/
www.hrw.org/reports/2004/pakistan0704/pakistan0704.pdf
at one side u beg for army and other side u hate it?? jao dafa ho jao india… odher he raho…. u dont deserve a nation of ur own![salman asghar!]
=========================
Dear Salman Sahab,
If our Former Chief of Army Staff the Rascal Musharraf was so brave that then what was the need of the damn Kargil Operation [a suicidal and ill advised operation] when he would have to shake hand with Atal Bihari Vajpai and for this hand shake the Military Establishment sacked Nawaz Sharif to pave the way for the worst era for the new Pakistan [Jinnah's Pakistan died in 1971]
USATODAY.com - Musharraf, Vajpayee shake hands at summit
www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002/05/india-pakistan.htm
7) they have a superiority complex against the civilians(many of us have a personal experience)[dr jawwad khan]
=======================
Minor Example:
Some 6 years ago Chaudary Nisar Ali Khan {Pakistan Muslim League Nawaz Sharif} in an interview with Dr. Shahid Masood for his program Views on News on ARY ONE said that after illegally toppling the elected government of Mian Nawaz Sharif on 12 Oct 1999’s Military Mutiny, General Mehmood Ahmed {The Former ISI Chief} took Nawaz Sharif {the elected Prime Minister of 150 Million Pakistanis} to Army Barracks where he was forced to sign some papers which Nawaz didn’t and naturally Nawaz and his family sealed their fate. That happened with Nawaz Sharif once before when during 1993’s political crisis when Nawaz Sharif in his live speech had said without taking the name of the then President Ghulam Ishaq Khan {actually Army} that he {Nawaz} will not take dictation and later on the Invisible Hands succeeded in getting resignation from Nawaz Sharif. In a meeting where both Nawaz and Ghulam Ishaq Khan were present with several Army Generals, Nawaz tried to leave the room when a General stopped him using a very Fancy Army Stick and forced that stick on Nawaz’s shoulder and made him sit down.
{Reference: Agenciyon Ki Hukoomat by Late. Azher Suhail published by Jang Publishers Pakistan}.
Far worse thing happened with Zulfikar Ali Bhutto’s dead body who was murdered by General Zia, Judiciary and USA. On the orders of General Ziaul Haq an army officer checked the Private Parts of Bhutto’s Body to make sure that Bhutto was really a Muslim [Colonel Retd. Rafi Interview in Newspaper and on GEO TV too in 2008] and they made it sure.
Excellent Jawwad Sahab
This weekend’s dramatic attack on the army headquarters in Rawalpindi, the military center of Pakistan, underscores the volatility and fragility of politics in the world’s second largest Muslim country. The Taliban attackers demonstrated that despite losing the campaign in the Swat Valley this summer, they retain the capacity for terror in the heart of Pakistan – striking, in effect, into the Pentagon of Pakistan. And the attack, which left 16 dead, will almost certainly revive concerns about the capacity of the Pakistani army to protect its nuclear arsenal. If the Taliban can get into army headquarters, where else might it strike next?
@salman asghar!
do you know why there is such a level of distrust against our own army? because our army betrayed our nation and committed many unforgivable crimes
1) they engaged themselves in a war against its own people just in a state of fear.in order to survive they started killing them. they were so obedient that they even took the blame of crimes committed by american army just to prove that they are defenders of the country.
2) they kidnaped many innocent pakistanis and sell them just for dollars.now those pakistanis are on the mercy of americans.
3) high ranking army officers are involved in corruptions much bigger then corruption of asif zardari.all the valueable lands are under control of retired army officers.
the bussines run by rtd generals never suffer the loses like civilians does. they are running the businesses fertilizers,sugar mills,petrol pumps even bakeries instead of gaurding the nation.
4) drone attacks are especially the damaging one.so called world no 3rd army watching the drone attacks helplessly.these drone attacks especially put a question mark moral reasons of the existence of army.
5) they violate their oaths and constitution of pakistan in a very obnoxious and nauseating way.
6) they(top brass) are devoid of national pride,patriotism and professionalism.
7) they have a superiority complex against the civilians(many of us have a personal experience)
and they show extreme degree of inferiority complex when it comes to america.
8) tendency of use of bruital force against its own people on the issues which could be solved by negotiations. akbar bugti is a near past example
tell me what are the arguments in the defence of pakistan army?
at one side u beg for army and other side u hate it?? jao dafa ho jao india... odher he raho.... u dont deserve a nation of ur own!
May Allah forgive our sins and take away this humiliation from our country, Ameeen. The thing is its our people on both sides of the fight, whether we agree with them or not. [junaid]
================
A'ameen
Dr. Jawwad,
I agree. I wonder if that killed brigadier had expressed his view against the upcoming operation in Waziristan.
Accidents happen, just like they way Meer Mushaf (Air Chief) who opposed Musharraf and Just like the other Kiyani (who opposed Musharraf in a famous CSS officers case) died of a mysterious disease in just one month.
Some thing is cooking and we seem to be helpless.
May Allah forgive our sins and take away this humiliation from our country, Ameeen.
The thing is its our people on both sides of the fight, whether we agree with them or not.
shame on pakistan army…[abdullah khan]
==============================
Yes indeed, after using some Mullahs for the so-called Strategic Depths [shame on you Rascal Mirza Aslam Beg and Naseerullah Babar as well] they blame Madressahs and Mullahs for every ill. They are wrong...
Read..
The fear of an Islamic threat has been the driving force behind most Western countries’ foreign policies toward Pakistan in recent years. The possibility that violent Islamists will kill President Pervez Musharraf, throw Pakistan into turmoil, take over the country and its nuclear weapons, and escalate regional terrorism has dominated the psychological and political landscape. Such fears have usually led to support of the Pakistani military as the only institution able to contain the danger. But the Islamist threat is neither as great nor as autonomous as many assume. True, Pakistan has experienced more than its share of religious violence, both sectarian and jihadi. But serious law-and-order problems do not mean the fate of the state is at stake. No Islamic organization has ever been in a position to politically or militarily challenge the role of the one and only center of power in Pakistan: the army. On the contrary, the Pakistani Army has used Islamic organizations for its purposes, both at home and abroad. Islamist organizations balance the power of rival mainstream political parties, preserving the army’s role as national arbiter. The army has nurtured and sometimes deployed violent Islamists in Afghanistan (with U.S. support at first), Kashmir, and other hot spots on the subcontinent.
Pakistan: The Myth of an Islamist Peril By Frederic Grare Publisher: Carnegie Endowment Policy Brief #45, February 2006 Click on link for the full text of this Carnegie Paper
the army deserved this attack and even more
these scoundrels only respect the language of brute force...
and i don't believe that it was a drama...what incentive would the army or establishment have in giving a slap on its own face...that too at the hands of a bunch of youngsters...
shame on pakistan army...kiyani must have peed in his pants all day long.
obviously it was a drama!!![dr jawwad khan]
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I agree with Jawad Sahab that there is something fishy in all this. First the emrgence of Interrogation Video, Kerry Lugar Bill, Blast in Indian Embassy in Kabul, Blast in Peshawar and latest is attack on GHQ????
GHQ Attack: Security Failure Needs To Be Investigated by Azfar-ul-Ashfaque - The writer is a journalist associated with Dawn.
Every military dictator in Pakistan needed some justification for the coup and to perpetuate his rule. General Musharraf was no exception. And he began to rope in some of the politicians and seasonal manipulators. One of them was constitutional expert Shariffudin Pirzada who had assisted General Ziaul Haq as well.
”I was called by General Musharraf. I went there. Some corps commanders wanted to impose the Martial Law. I insisted that General Musharraf should become the chief executive and also retain the president for continuity of the system,” Pirzada recalls.
He asserts that it was then feared that some of the apex court judges might pass a judgment against General Musharraf. ”Only then it was decided to ask the judges to take oath under the PCO. Four judges were not invited to take the oath,” he says.
Among the PCO judges was Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, the present Chief Justice of Pakistan. He was among the judges who not only validated General Musharraf’s coup, but allowed him to amend the Constitution.
Watch Shahzad Raza’s documentary: Making of a coup, on DawnNews today at 1530 and 2330 hours.
Back to the future? Countdown to the Oct 12 coup By Shahzad Raza Monday, 12 Oct, 2009 | 07:13 AM PST
obviously it was a drama!!!
if my guess is not incorrect, this drama was staged to kill that brigadier.
hats off to Pakistan Army….[Salman]
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خوفزدہ دہشت گرد !
وسعت اللہ خان
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/columns/2009/10/091011_b...
اگر مذکورہ سرکاری بیانات پر یقین کرلیا جائے تو پھر جی ایچ کیو راولپنڈی پر ہونے والا حملہ سمجھنے میں کوئی مشکل نہیں ہونی چاہئے۔یعنی درجن بھر دہشت گردوں نے ایک ماہ قبل اسلام آباد کے نزدیک اعوان ٹاؤن میں ’گھبرا‘ کر ایک مکان کرائے پر لیا۔ بیس پچیس روز تک ’ بدحواسی‘ کے عالم میں جائے واردات کے نقشے بنائے اور جی ایچ کیو کے اطراف سروے کیا۔’انتہائی خوفزدہ‘ ہوکر فوجی ودریاں پہنیں اور ’دہشت زدہ‘ ہوکرایک موٹر سائیکل اور سوزوکی وین میں جی ایچ کیو کی دو حفاظتی چوکیاں پار کیں اور کانپتے ہاتھوں سے دو گرینیڈ پھینک کر چھ فوجی افسروں اور جوانوں کو ہلاک کردیا۔
@ before i could reply..some els already replied to ur comment
@Salman
I have replied there but the comment may/may not appear there so i will post it here :
"" This is interesting, the same taliban were the miracle GOD-send children of our ARMY in 1996 when they captured KABUL. Our same ARMY hoasted them as their kids and Fazl-ur-Rehman proudly told everyone that its his madressa children. People like Hamid gul and then ISI officers boasted their achievements (kinder refer to all Jawabdeh programs which iftikhar has done with former MILITARY officers including a recent one in which a colonel still proudly tell about his children and their achievements in AFGHANISTAN)
Stop lecturing these emotional rhetoric. Agar saanp palo gay toh aisa hee hoga. Why these TALIBAN were not bad for you when they were slitting the throats of the afghaniz when they were hanging the dead bodies on electricity poles in kabul . At that time these talibans were the hero’s of our ARMY and now when the snakes have come back home all of sudden PATRIOTIC rhetoric is being flooded on national channels by ISPR and ARMY.
what about the mothers fathers daughters and sons of the ones killed by YOUR TALIBAN hero’s in Afghanistan from 94 – 2001 ? Dont they posses tears? , jo ab ye jazbaati batain kerke aap awaam ko bewaquf bana rahe ho.
jo fasal aap ne boi thi 20 saal pehle ab wo kaat rahe ho so stop bullshitting ""
What Pakistan Army is doing is not even a point percent of a single drop of tear from a mother’s eye of a martyred son, not a point percent of feelings of father burying his young son. Check out the answer of your topic here
http://paknpak.com/pakistan-army-vs-human-rights-d...
@Amir y dont u write a book or make ur own blog or website sure u r an encyclopedia of Pakistan history :D [Faisal]
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Dear Faisal Sahab,
Thanks for your compliment. I am honoured and humbled by your comment. I am not an Scholar at all and books are written by Scholars. I just compile and collect information and try to share with others.
I have my blog http://chagataikhan.blogspot.com/ and posts therein are basically my exchange of mails with different people. I have just put all these mails and counter mails from 2002 to 2008 in the shape of blog. These are basically my conversation with different persons.
Thanks again for your appreciative comment.
Regards
ye na ho ki wo local cantt station ja ker aap ke “gadaar” hone ka certificate issue kervade ya ye “PROVE” kerde ki you are a “NATIONAL SECURITY” risk or may be some ISREALI AGENT. .lolllll you know typical MILITARY mentality . .
“bloody civilians” :):)[MB]
======================
Dear MB,
LOL - Anybody is at liberty to do as you have suggested above, they are more than welcome because I am not in hiding my profile/picture are on my blog.
Declaration of being me an Israeli/CIA/Indian Agent wont do [go through my blog and you find that I have collection on Israeli/Zionist Extremism and Hindu Extremism as well.
Regards
@Amir
y dont u write a book or make ur own blog or website sure u r an encyclopedia of Pakistan history :D
Hey hey Amir Mughal saheb, take it easy . . You just ditched the blind-ARMY lover 6 feet under the ground.
ye na ho ki wo local cantt station ja ker aap ke "gadaar" hone ka certificate issue kervade ya ye "PROVE" kerde ki you are a "NATIONAL SECURITY" risk or may be some ISREALI AGENT. .lolllll you know typical MILITARY mentality . .
"bloody civilians" :):)
es mulk mai logun ke 2 fav time pass hain :
aik jis se faith na milta ho usko "Kafir" declare kerna
aik jis se soch na milti ho usko "gaddar" kehna
In response to comment by skeptic at 9:03am:
First he brings on a make-belief assumption about Army, then draws up a conclusion, and then asks others to endorse his beliefs. Any doubt left about this person's state of mind?
The same argument can be as easily brought forward about lawyers, about journalists, about politicians and practically about everyone.
@Amir I must say i am impressed by your collection of references :) [MB]
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Thanks, I am humbled.
Salman,
You said:
......, army was sent by ur civilian government orders when the locals of the area needed help! army totally acted on government orders! and its completing their task!
and then you said:
....these 3rd rated people when find nothing, then they join politics… they are bunch of stealers, murderers and filthy peoples… recent examples are shumaila rana, firdaus etc etc…. and above all.. u love ZARDARI! who dont get tired by filling his a** for $$$$$…the most filthiest people of Pakistan are in politics!
at one place you curse Zardari and other politicians and workers and then you say that the civilians govt. has ordered this operation....and at another point you said that the operation is in the interest of the country
If Zardari has ordered this, then Zardari is working for the interest of the country and Kiyani (senseless of the country's interest) is not a hero rather just doing his job, what he is paid for.
OR
Zardari is making $$$$$$ (as you said) so Kiyani must be making some too? he is following the orders of a crook.
You are not clear in your thought process. Your blind support for Pakistan army has made you blind and ignorant
Pakistan is breeding sands (Stallions) with free ration, living, medical, education to childrens and on retirement jobs and houses. What army has done for Pakistan except enjoying facilities. Army has dark history of rapes and murders in East Pakistan, cases are pending in International Court of Justice. Kiyani, Shuja Pasha and other chore commanders are on pay role of CIA. Nobody is war of terror except Kiyani and company. Yesterday he again issued statemnt that if army would not win Wairistan than War on terror would be lost. Same words he used at the day when CJ was restored.
This army has squeezed Pakistan, nick names of its generals are Zarar Zameen, Tariq Majid butcher, Tikka Khan butcher of East Pakistan, Niazi as liar Ghai and there is long list of generals, read Hamood ur Rahman Commission report. Yahya Khan, Niazi and Mush were sex predators.
It is worst army on entire globe which rushed on civilians of Pakistan which is against constitution of Pakistan.
At least three generals are retiring with in next a few months including Kiyani, and whole game is for extension or deposits at overseas banks. Who is behind financing Mush at London.
Entire army must be disbanded consists of descendents of slavish army employees and new persons must be recruited. All present generals are bunch of thugs, liars and dacoits who told public that we can not stop drone attacks, then what for those are taking big salaries, go home and sleep.
Now we are told that Black Water is operating drones from Shamsi base and GHQ is behind providing targets.
On the name of millitants those are trying to conquerer Pakistan. There are one million hill tops in FATA, everyday photo shows that those have conquered a country. Shame on army and shame on generals.
At Bahawalpur those harrased villagers to occupy lands, Baluchistan, NWFP, FATA and Kashmir is burning in fire due to immoral generals. It is time to ask that where 80% budget of Defence is going, on salaries, cars, planes and foreign visits. Pakistan army is Pakistan Criminal gang.
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