Pakistan Ka Mutlub Kia? Islam Ki Ruswai, Aur Kia

The country which was founded in the name of Islam hardly follows its teachings. The so called founder of Pakistan Mr. Jinnah hardly lived his life as per Islamic teachings (if at all he was a muslim). Ponder at the formal name of the country "Islamic Republic of Pakistan". My humble question is what Islam has to do with Republic...Islam talks only about khilafat as there is no place for republican ideology. Hope will only prevail once you have got the basics right. The country was not founded for the sake of muslim ummah rather it was a result of personality clash of some individuals. Do you expect things to improve unless shariya is practiced in the country?

@KASHMIRI
please do not mind manish awasthi!
when it caomes to ground realities of gujrat messacre,kashmir's ethnic cleansing,burning the train by army officers and countless riots against muslim community,ethnic cleansing of christians and sikhs, they run and take shelter under some kind of eutopia and start dreaming that every thing is just fine.these people are sleeping and you are distrbing their nice dreams.

@KASHMIRI,

Ithink bfore u spit out some thing,just analyse true facts.
If muslims were killed in india like u said..then population percentage wud b decreasing...where as at the time of partition..muslims were 5% in india...n now they r 15%....where as hindus were 14% in pakistan at partition..n now they r 1%...n i dont think if any temples of hindus r left....plz dont show ur hypocracy so shamelessly.

Sorry! A correction in the third para of my previous post:

"The word 'Tafeeri' occurring in the last but one line of the para be read as 'Takfeeri'".

@dr.jawwadkhan

I am sorry dear that you got offended by a sincere advice of mine. I never intended or expected it so and therefore withdraw my words which offended you.

I may remind you that I no where defended what you call the 'machinations of qadianies' and hold no brief for them. It is,however, a fact that their persecution in Pakistan is providing a lot of sympathy for them in the world at large, especially in the West and earning bad name for the Pakiland in equal measure.

In fact, my point in all this thread was that they are the lesser evil than the theocracy which has hijacked Pakistan and Islam to use it for their vested interest. They led Paky Parliament to convert the Constitution to make it a 'Tafeeri Fatwa' which went more in favour of Ahmadies. It was like cutting your nose to spite your face.

You object to the word 'Paky', but this was the name the gora school boys in a London street used to shout at me whenever they saw me standing in the street waiting for the school bus of my daughter.

Regards.

@readinglord
it is not "qadiyani phobia" it is an expression of abomination towards deception, forgery and treason filled with endless conspiracies.
Disappointed you?
Yes…… many people got disappointed when they see unanimous repudiation for qadiyaniat. Not only because there are issues of legitimacy according to quran and sunnat but also the collusive behavior and their relentless work for loathful goals, persistent conspiracies which are alienated themselves in Pakistani society.
People of Pakistan chose Islam as a source of law making and rejected qadiyaniat unanimously.
And then people like you appear on different forums pretending a liberal muslim, calling Pakistani as “paky” to change their mind and winning heart and soul
. What a pity?
I have absolutely no reason to consult with a psychiatrist.
But I suggest you to learn some manners.

@dr.jawwadkhan

Your question:

"is it liberalism or is it qadiyaniyat??"

disappointed me dear Jawwad.

I wonder how could you smell 'Qadiyaniyat' in my posts?

Btw, are you a medical professional?

Please see some psychiatrist as you seem to be suffering from 'qadiani phobia'. It is in fact this very phobia which has made a joke of Paky faith and got its Constitution subverted and corrupted so as to reduce it just to a fatwa against qadianiat. This 'fatwa' is the constitution of Pakistan now which is the only part of it which stands like a cancer even when the entire constitution stands abrogated or suspended off and on at the whim of a military userper.

"you seem to be placing yourself and the ‘state’ on a
pedestal, higher even than God, by denouncing the faith
of others and conferring to the latter the authority to
judge upon the faith of its citizens"

is it liberalism or is it qadiyaniyat??

@Kashmiri

You may be correct perhaps because there is some trace of blood of Imam Hussain in my veins who had defied a similar attempt by Yazid when almost entire 'Muslim Umma' had submitted to his un-holy writ as a poet had said about Hussain:

"Sar daad nah daad dast dar daste Yazid
Haqqah kih binaaey Laillah ast Hussain"

What it is to say 'Laillah' today following the 'Uswa-e-Hussain'? It means defying the writ of the false god of theocracy which they tried to establish, in collusion with self-seeking politicians, by calling for halfnamas from the Muslims and Muslims alone, even from those who had fought for establishment of Pakistan as Muslims in their own right and not by any sanction by the theocracy who had opposed it tooth and nail.

So dear Kashmiri it is not the question of understanding but the call of one's blood.

@ readinglord,

you are mixing up everything, you don't want to

understand.

@Kashmiri

No dear NB you did not get at the problem which is special to the Pakiland. Here the question is not one of identity only of the professed religion, faith , ethnicity, etc., but also of preventing certain citizens to call them Muslims as of right. For instance, if you call yourself a Hindu, a Sikh, a Jew, or even an Ahmadi, they won’t ask you for a halfnama as they believe, by implication , that they would be true to their faith but the moment you call yourself a Muslim the warning bell rings to call for an inquiry into your faith by calling upon you to fill up a halfnama condemning the Ahmadi faith and insulting their founder, believing again that an Ahmadi would remain true to his faith and won’t call himself a Muslim by abusing his founder like a Sikh did in a ‘Sikh and a Peer’ story. This is a sinister and idiotic technical machination by anti-Muslim and anti-human Fassadi (Mullah’s deen is ‘deene fassad’ according to Allama Iqbal) Mullah for obtaining ‘beyit’ to their superemacy like a demi-god, determining the faith of the people, in Yazidi fashion, in collusion with munafiqeen politicians. All this is beyond comprehension of a’Na-baaligh’ like you. So please don’t bother yourself with such intricate matters.

mment by dr_jawwad71 on November 15, 2008 @ 3:55 pm
@readinglord!
I still not being able to understand that what make you hurt or insulted?
If some body asks me “are you a muslim?” my offhand response will be “ALHAMDULLILAH” with happiness and joy. And this is the common practice in muslim society.
I do not see any reason to be offended.
There are two aspect of this issue which should not be entangled.
1) The relation of a Muslims with ALLAH (swt) according to which the only ALLAH (swt) can decide the strength of iman and deal according to it. Verse 14 of surah hujrat deals with divine knowledge of ALLAH (swt) as He is knows every thing and which is nothing to do with the law of state. Because state can not “see through the hearts of individual”
2) The relation of a Muslim with the state. Only majority of people will decide (in the light of quran and sunnat) how the state will deal with its citizens (which have been done through “qarardad e maqasid” in 1956).a state can not decide the level of iman as it does not have that power, it will deal with legal formalities.
3) If you are not qadiyani then you can easily understand the back ground of half nama it’s inevitability and it’s coherent importance in country like paksitan.
4) Half nama is required not to alienate the christians, hindu ,sikh or parsi but to differentiate muslims from machinating and deceitful qadiyanis. Who are the product of forgery and deception; facilitated by “saltanat e englishiya” (I hope you will agree on this)
(Anextract from Teeth ‘Pakistan ka matlab kia?’ to comment)

________________________________________________________________----

@ dr_jawwad71

Thank you dear for your kind and learned response. I will try to reply to the questions raised by you ad seriatim hereunder:

Q.1. I still not being able to understand that what make you hurt or insulted?

Ans.: My reason for feeling hurt and insulted is the same as made Imam Hussain to refuse to offer ‘Beyit’ to the so called ‘Khaleefah’ Yazid of a so called ‘Islamic’ state when majority of the so called Muslims behaved otherwise. It was this reason that made Yazid to get a ‘Fatwa’ from the so called ‘Ullema’ to declare Hussain ‘Kharij-az-Islam’. This is what has been done by converting the Constitution of Pakistan into a Yazidi ‘Fatwa’ by taking away the right of its citizens to declare allegiance to any faith as of right. As it is, your claim to call yourself a Muslim will not be accepted by the state unless you submit a Half namah like a ‘beyit’ required to be submitted to a Yazidi despot.

It is another question whether Islam at all allows the ‘taghooti’ apparatus of the so called state when it shows abhorrence to its coercive machinery, like police, taxation, prisons, etc., etc., and the Quran declares ‘La hukmo illa Lillah’ and ‘La ikrah fiddin’.

Q.2. You say:

“If some body asks me “are you a muslim?” my offhand response will be “ALHAMDULLILAH” with happiness and joy. And this is the common practice in muslim society.
I do not see any reason to be offended.”

Ans./comments:

Certainly my response will also be the same as I believe in ‘AlHAMDULILLAH’ which in my view means ‘All praise be to Allah’. This shows extreme humility when making any claim about your faith even. But excuse me, by implication, you seem to be placing yourself and the ‘state’ on a pedestal, higher even than God, by denouncing the faith of others and conferring to the latter the authority to judge upon the faith of its citizens.

@readinglord,

your last para, its not so, Vatican and Catholic
Church hold a life-long record of her fidel's identity
and proceed with acts accordingly.

Israel holds total jewish-identity of her citizens from
A-to Z as Israeli nationality basic criteria.

Republic Serbia has accomplished her ethnic religious
basis of national consensus.
and others,

@readinglord!
I still not being able to understand that what make you hurt or insulted?
If some body asks me “are you a muslim?” my offhand response will be “ALHAMDULLILAH” with happiness and joy. And this is the common practice in muslim society.
I do not see any reason to be offended.
There are two aspect of this issue which should not be entangled.
1) The relation of a Muslims with ALLAH (swt) according to which the only ALLAH (swt) can decide the strength of iman and deal according to it. Verse 14 of surah hujrat deals with divine knowledge of ALLAH (swt) as He is knows every thing and which is nothing to do with the law of state. Because state can not “see through the hearts of individual”
2) The relation of a Muslim with the state. Only majority of people will decide (in the light of quran and sunnat) how the state will deal with its citizens (which have been done through “qarardad e maqasid” in 1956).a state can not decide the level of iman as it does not have that power, it will deal with legal formalities.
3) If you are not qadiyani then you can easily understand the back ground of half nama it’s inevitability and it’s coherent importance in country like paksitan.
4) Half nama is required not to alienate the christians, hindu ,sikh or parsi but to differentiate muslims from machinating and deceitful qadiyanis. Who are the product of forgery and deception; facilitated by “saltanat e englishiya” (I hope you will agree on this)

@ dr_jawwad71

What a faulty logic! Dear Dr, one can, of coarse, search my car, my papers, etc., but how can one search my heart to verify my real faith?

The Pakies can perhaps be called Muslims in terms of verse 14 of Sura Hujrat as reproduced hereunder as in Pickthall's translation:

"The wandering Arabs (One can add here Paky Muslims also) say: We believe. Say (unto them,OMohammad): Ye believe not,but rather say "We submit," for the faith hath not yet entered into your hearts."

Identities are, of coarse, checked all over the world but it is only Pakistan that the faith, and that only of the Muslims, is considered questionable requiring a half nama, which can be verified only by God, as it is He who knows what is in your heart.

@readinglord!
Did you ever pass a check post? Where a soldier ask you to stop and ask you to identify yourself. You show him your id card, your registration papers and driving license. Then he asks to search your car some time he open the bags even carry body search and then ask you to leave. With out any distastefulness you leave the place.
Why???........because you understand the importance of his duty. Because what he is doing is just performing his duty to protect the citizens.
Similarly the biggest minds of Pakistan including zulifiqar ali Bhutto realized that qadiyani want to become jews of Pakistan (his own words).at that time political leader ship decided to out cast the qadiyanis from the main stream( legitimacy according to Islam was another issue)
If some one ask me to give the “half nama” I do it with pleasure. For me it is the same as passing through check post because I can understand the importance of half nama.

@Kashmiri

An explanation:

What I said in my previous post about oath of 'khatme-nabuwwat', is constitutional and legal requirement only for those who claim to be Muslims, as faith of all Muslims only is doubtful and questionable. And since the Paky Constitution is called an Islamic one this applies to Muslims all over the world being an Islamic injunction (Ijmah). I, personally, feel insulted, whenever I am called upon to sign-up this 'half-nama' as a Muslim.

@Kashmiri

No I do not recognize any body as a Muslim unless he has submitted the 'half-nama' with oath of 'khatme-nabuwwat' and condemnation of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as an impostor.

@ readinglord,
irrelevant
you are mixing up, everything, go thru
Amritsar agreement, according to which
Kashmir was sold by the Vicious Hindu/Sikh Maharaja
to British dogs, when the Sikhs of Punjab were beaten
their arses by British, and the religion of Islam
sold to British by Mirza who was quite " Baaligh "
in Punjab, btw have ever read Iqbal's Nazm
" Punjabi Musalman " ! please go thru it .

@Kashmiri

Excuse me, this is beyond the comprehention of a 'Na-baaligh' Kashmiri whose land was sold by the British alongwith the Kashmiri Haatoes inhabiting it just for a paltry sum of Rs.75 lakhs or so. Its registry can be seen in the old archives in the Punjab Secretariat. And now they have come to teach us Pakies about our so called constitution which can stand only as a 'Fatwa', trouncing the basic human rights of the citizens.

@ readinglord,

Maqbooza is majority muslim country invaded by
Indian Martial law dictators since 1948, you agree ?

Pakistan is an ISLAMIC REPUBLIC with a constitution
and a legislative OK ? Majority rules ok ?

the difference is, one is occupied (not free),
does NOT have a constitution, although expressed its
adherence to Pakistan since 70 years, you know the
reason well, and the other is FREE. The law in the
constitution is for every member of minority in Pak.
Not only Qadianis.

@Kqashmiri

So you are perhaps Kashmiri on the 'Maqboozah' side of Kashmir wherein one can claim his faith as of right without filling any 'Halfnama' and even the paky goverment would recognize you as such, whereas in the pakiland they allow such right only to one who claims to be Ahmadi Muslim.

@temporal

Your quote from Quran(5:32):

“…if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people.”

This is just an observation made by the Qurani Allah to Bani Israel that gives rise to many questions.

In the first place, I wonder why God who is supposed to be almighty, the sole controller of life and death, makes innocuous observations like a journalist.

Secondly, since uncountable innocent persons, including children and women, are being murdered in the world every day without commiting any mischief which apprently means that we all stand murdered (Not made 'Shaheed'mind)according to the observation of God.

Thrdly, who is the authority to decide who is committing a mischief. For instance our tribals are being killed today, including childeren and women, both by America and Paky Army and also by by Qabaailies themselves who are called 'Askariat-Pasand', which of them be judged as a 'ischief-makerm' slayiung the humanity nth times over.

My mind boggles and I am constrained to end this harangue by a couplet from a Bolywood song:

"Yih kia jageh he dosto, yih koun sa dayaar he
Hadd-e-nigaah tak jahaan ghubar hi ghubaar he"

@ Readinglord,

Since the state is made of "persons", i.e citizens
with their " identity " already established, every
Minister, PM or President or Speaker, members of
legislative have to take oath, in addition to their
own ID cards already existing.

Yes, are right I am still " na-baaligh " as I have'nt
filled any Halfnamah, nobody has yet established when
can a human being "become" BAALIGH !!!

@Kashmiri

No sir I am not satisfied at all. You failed to understand what I meant by 'Halfi' Muslims. In Pakiland the state is claimed to be Islamic without submitting any 'Halaf nama' which all citizens of the state who claim to be Muslims, and Muslims alone, have to submit. Still you can laugh and celebrate your birth as a free citizen. Btw, did you get an ID card, a passport or got registered as a voter? If you had done this you would have signed the 'Half' in the application form if you claimed to be a Muslim. Or perhaps you are 'na-baaligh' yet as appears from your thinking.

@ readinglord,

I try to be short, according to your paras :

1. ID. they only ask to indentify, if belonging to
minority or muslims, No insults NOT TO CATAGORIZE OR
PASS JUDEGMENT FOR GOOD OR BAD, according to my infos,
in the contitution, article.... give only the definiton
of a non-muslim, who is a non-muslim, thats all.

2. Islamic Republic of Pakistan is an historically
exceptional case in the History of states, born with
a muslim identity. The state and her constitution must
carry minimum coherence as to type of republic !
authority of Mullah is not in the balance, its national
assembly's legislation made by politicians, how many
Mullah were there ?

3. US and EU have, both officially and unofficially,
declared an important part of muslim popuplation in
their respective believes & countries as terrorists,
they have even named some political parties. Non in
this world or in UNO can define who is to be catagorized
as a terrorist ? what is terrorism ? If you can please
go ahead . We can call USA & EU as investors in Int.
terrorism, would you contest that ?

4. Sir, you are not clear on AZAD, as you seems to have
claimed that non-halfis, though not institutionalized as
maleechhas yet by the Indian Govt.
YOU MAKE ME LAUGH, Sir, Do you think that Indian
junta, RSS or jan-sangh butchers will ask you if you
are Halfis, or not. All non Hindus are catagorized as
achoots, maleechaas, shudars, and non-caste.

India is comitting Genocide without declaring the
minorities, so that every thing is done quietly under
the false banner of secularism.

I hope you are satisfied with my modest answers.

@Kashmiri

Thank you for such a long discourse in response to my post. You perhaps misunderstood my remark about ‘Halfi’ Muslims. They, I had stated, are found only in Pakistan as it is only that country that the Muslims have to prove their claim to faith by submission of an insulting affidavit to, God knows whom, for getting an ID card even, in accordance with Fiqah-e-bhuttwiah-wal-Ziaeyah.

As regards the faith of Ahmadies or Shias, I did not question the authority of the Mullah to declare them whatever they like. In my view it was no business of the state to become a judge upon the faith of its citizens and fatwanize its Constitution to condemn the faith of a section of its citizens.

Btw, Obama, who calls himself a ‘La-mazhab’,
has won the election as a President of the United States, the sole ‘Super Power’ of the world today. Would you like him to declare all Muslims as extremists, terrorists, etc., and get them declared as ‘waajibulqatl’ by the UNO?

As regards the statement of Moulana Azad, I wonder if you have tried to prove it or dis-prove it by stating the instances of carnage of the Muslims in India. Paky ‘Halfi’ Muslims can perhaps do nothing to help them, the ‘Non-halfi’ Muslims of India, though not institutionalized as ‘Maleechhas’ yet by the Indian Government.

@ Barrister,

Cabinet Missn. proposals were to accept the reality of
two nation theory, what was demanded my M L.& QUAID
You know how it worked e.g
Union of India would have comprised of Punjab,NWFP,
Sindh, Baluchistan etc and
British India + Indian states Bengal Assam etc.
And it worked till the Bania mentality opened up.
Muslims and Hindus participated on different nation's
basis, NO ?
M L had five Ministries, Liaquat Ali being
Finance Minister, with the famous Budget complications.
So is it not clear for you ! that Indian Muslims were a
seperate entity ?

Of course the whole thing WAS sabotaged by Nahru-Patel
gang,
against Ghandi's opinion and sentiments,
but M L's and MAJ's determination did not deteriorated,
and you know well that The vicious anti-muslim Vice-roi
was " parachuted " literaly installed or lets say
brought in by Nehru to further sabotage, which ended up
in the demand for seperate state for " MUSLIMS ", you
and your party zealots should stop propogating that Nehru
made Pakistan, this is nonsensical hypothication just
to discredit M L and Quaid,
NO WHERE FOR ONE MOMENT SECULARISM WAS BROUGHT INTO ANY
DISCUSSION OR EVEN ALLUSIONED.
AND THIS IS HOW " PAKISTAN KA MATLAB KIA " RESPONDED
WITH ETERNAL " LA ILLAHA ILLALAH " THIS IS HISTORY
WHICH CAN NOT BE CHANGE OR ALTERED BY YOU OR BACHA KHAN
MERHOOM, ALTAF HUSSAIN OR ABID HASSAN MANTO AND HIS
HALI MAWALIS.

@ Barrister,

Do I need to validate Pakistan's History, thru
your " memoire-infested "auspices " particularly with
reference of Mrs. Suharawardi's " recollections " ?

Viewing today's figures
there are 170 millions of Pakistanis muslims
200 millions of Ex-East Pakistanis muslims
50 million of West Bangalis muslims
250 million of Indian muslims (Indian fugures falsified)
who would want bangladesh to join West Bengale ??

I do agree with you that we have a very clear devide
between my definition of patriotism, and your's,
I doubt that Suhrawardi had any other vision than an
unaltered, Quaid's-inspired & initiated, unquestionable
patriotism, If he would have dared at that time of
" keeping how ever a vision, according to you, apart
from what total muslim Bengali population of India,
had visioned, and yet the Bangali muslim mases
became the majority " makers " of Pakistan. ? ! ! !
I woukd have never believed him !!
That so called "vision of combined Bengal", if it was,
would 'nt have ended up in a fiasco by creating
Bangladesh, by the " bangla Buddhu ", the rat who
ruined the total East Bangali muslims from day one to
today, he is called traitor of bangalis,
if, by any chance you are thinking that Shaikh Mujib,
represents 3 grms of Suharawardy's vision, then, your
whole theory of, so called, combined Bengale stands
fictitious, and that of your colleagues amateurs.
It was, however a shock for Mujib, the traitor, when
India rejected catagorically to annex a "total natural
disaster infested Liability "
The vision of bringing " back " East Bangale to West
Bengale, eventually back to India, would have been
providing some indications that Suharawardy would have
visioned something indentical to the creation of a
joint entity like Greater Bengal.

Today's vision could be to bring back East Pakistan
and expand our defensive strategy and hegemony in the
region, giving large autonomy to Eastern part.

@ Readinglord,

Hanafi is nothing but school of jurisprudence (Fiqh)
following the opinion of Imam-e-Azam, Abu Hanifah.
"halfi musulman " must be those who need to take oath
in order to convert to Islam from Qadianiat, or other
sects.
Normally, what you call " Jayyad Ulema of Deoband i.e.
a small region of Deoband Darul-uluome with very much
Influence of Indian Muslim Saints and ulemaHanafis,
we have further Deobandis nd Barelvis, who
have added and codefied more details, some of them have
initiated and encouraged militants to combat other sects
also having combative groups like Shia sipah-e-Muhammad
initiated by Iranian Shias,
now Shias can not be declared as non muslims, not just
by one or two ignorant maulavis, you need to have ijma'a
consensus) of all, e.g. muslim's total ijma'a on Qadianis
daclared as non-muslim, the ijma'a is 99.1 % so much so
that Pakistan as an Islamic Republic passed a legislation
to declare Qadianis non-muslims legally (1973).

Shias also have their school of jurisprudence called
Fiqh Jafferia, developed & adopted by Iran not long ago,
openly calling themselves jafferias as they
also believe in One Allah, Quran, and Rasool as last
Prophet so they are considered as muslims, but are
called sect in Islam. I will stop right here because
I dislike this subject as it is quite boring & dry.

I respect Azad, never knew him, but how wrong and
mistaken his vision was, at the time of Partition

Hindus and Sikh killed 4 millions of Muslims around
India in only two months " August and septmber 1947

Then Since my childhood I saw in the newspaper, Jang
Dawn, Nawa-e-waqt etc Muslim killings Genocide in
1956, 1959 1960 63 64 66 68 69 70 20001 2002 2003
only few names of the cities I remember, I wish some
one give details and figures
Jamshedpur, Gorakhpur, Jabalpur, Ranchi nagpur, Ayudhia
Luckhnow, Dehli, Punjab, Gujarat Ahmedabad,

Sorry, your AZAD was absolutely mistaken !!if it was
a Prophecy, if only it was !!

Kashmiri Sahib – you are in a denial mode and can not come up with a logical answer validating your counter arguments – no references at all.

Here’s another Mullah-Myth Buster,

Bhai Sahib, the Suhrawarday was a man of vision and a true patriot, obviously – there’s a clear divide between your definition and my definition of a patriot but there’s no doubt that Suhrawarday was a great visionary. Kashmir Sahib, I would recommend you to read his autobiography and the account later narriated by Begum Huseyn Shaheed Suhrawardy and you will understand the making of Bangladesh and rise of Sheikh Mujeeb ur Rehman who was his aide.

I am posting you couple of things with references (credible, ofcourse).

May 20, 1947, those who favored the United Independent Bengal scheme met at the house of Sarat Chandra Bose and reached at a tentative agreement. It was signed by Abul Hashim and Sarat Chandra Bose.

(http://www.asiaticsociety.org.bd/journals/vol%2052...

On the eve of the 1947 partition Suhrawardy envisioned the establishment of a state in Eastern India comprising the whole of Bengal and Assam and the adjoining districts of Bihar. This came to be known as his scheme for Greater Independent Bengal. As it is widely known, on the eve of the 1947 partition Suhrawardy, at that time the Prime Minister of the province, in collaboration with some Bangali Hindu leaders, namely, Sarat Chandra Bose, Kiran Shankar Roy and Satya Ranjan Bakshi initiated a move for a United Independent Bengal as a third dominion alongside India and Pakistan. ABUL HASHIM, the then secretary of the Bengal Provincial Muslim League, also extended his full support to the project. However, it was unsuccessful.
(http://banglapedia.search.com.bd/HT/S_0588.htm)

duago,
AKC.

@Kashmiri

You mentioned Hanafi Musalman, but ignored the sect which exists in Pakistan only; that of 'Halfi Muslims'. And what about Sipah-e- Suhabah, they on the basis of a fatwa by jayyad Ulamaa-eDeoband, say that even those who consider Shias as Muslim are kafirs. But you are now saying that those who claim to be Muslims, including Jinnah, are Muslims except Ahmadies. All this goes to prove how prophetic was Moulana Abulkalam Azad who had said (qoute in Urdu),"Bharat mein Musalmanon ka berha gharq hoga aur Paskistan mein Islam ka".

@ Barrister Sahib,

its beyond imagination, not even for one second, that
Hussain Shahid Suhrawardy a Giant Muslim leader of
the absolute majority of East Bengal muslims can even
think of venturing along with a Hindu a different Bengal
than was initiated during and after round table
conference before Nehru, Patel, Mountbaton, and Jinnah
and Rab Nistar, Liaquat Ali and other hindus.?
who all accepted and signed with the avale of Brit
Govt. the agreement
was unanimously upheld by all and the regions in questions where majority were muslims started to move in, to
take the inspections and charge,
then Nehru Bastard invaded Kashmir, Hyderabad, Junaghar
and guess who was the Diwan of Junaghar ? Sir shahnawaz
BHUTTO, who called on the Indian army against the will of
all memons and gujrati Muslims, The traitor Papa Bhutto, its
in the bloody blood.

What shall I do with Encyclopedia Britanica, throw it in
the Thames for ever. Bloody Brit liars, cheat, forgers in
their chromozomes.

cheers

@ readinglord,

because all other fiqhs (5 schools of fiqh) Shia, hambali,maliki, shafai and Hanafi from Ahlesunnat and
shia fiqh do not require any affidavit about Khatm-e-Nabuwat
as they all ^believe in the finality of Muhammad SAW.
Even the suffis don't have to, the largest one be Hanafi
having more than 1 billions of muslim adhering to it around
20 different muslim countries.

@Kashmiri

You say:

"M A J DECLARED OPENLY IN PUBLIC WHEN ASKED WHICH
SECT Did he BELONGed, HIS ANSWER WAS HISTORIC, HE REPLIED
I DO NOT BELONG TO ANY SECT , I AM A SIMPLE MUSLIM"

I ask you: How could MAJ call himself a 'Muslim' without sumitting an affidavit about 'Khatme Nabuwwat' with insulting remarks against Ahmadies and the founder of their faith, all of whom claimed to be Muslims?

Rafay Sahib,

Dear Kashmiri Sahib, I could see you can not produce any credible source or rationality to your own words. I along with everyone would appreciate if you strictly stick to an academic discussion instead of bring emotions for the clearity of discussion.

Kashmiri Sahib, both Sarat Chanderbose and Suhrawardy agreed to create an independent United secular Bengal... and they brought this pact to MAJ who accepted it. This incident can be found in every history book. It was Nehru who shot down this idea.

Here is Encyclopedia Brittanica:

Suhrawardy met with Sarat Chandra Bose, the acknowledged Hindu political leader in Bengal, and the two agreed that they should claim a separate, independent united Bengal. Jinnah was prepared to agree, as was Mountbatten, but Mahatma Gandhi and the Congress Party refused. When partition did come, it was decided by religion rather than language

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-33418/Banglad...

@ Fazil Wakil

Pandit Nehru was such a donkey that
he would have thought of " Balkanization " and
left the job to you or readinglord to write down
in the history, some wrongnumbers dialed to many
wrong persons. What are you talking, Wakil saheb,

Dimagh mein khalal hay, ya Khalal mein Dimagh,
Baitha hon aik chowk par, jaon kidhar ko mein

@ Fazil wakil ki bekar kawishein,

It seems you love visiting graveyards, just to dig
out useless small bones, and look for imaginary
nostalgia.

M A J THE GREATEST was born as Asna Ashri, so what ?
and was born in Brit colonized India like your father,
my father, My Great Grand Father a Kashmiri was an
employee of Brit Indian Army as a Doctor in Kashmir,
transfered to Amritsar^in 1857. I can still trace back
my great grand uncles still remained Brahamans like
donkeys, unless kicked out from Kashmir. They all
functioned like loyal subjects of her Majesty, Congress
was the only "desi" opinion,
but then slowly muslim opinion came up, who can have
anything against it ??

M A J DECLARED OPENLY IN PUBLIC WHEN ASKED WHICH
SECT Did he BELONGed, HIS ANSWER WAS HISTORIC, HE REPLIED
I DO NOT BELONG TO ANY SECT , I AM A SIMPLE MUSLIM.
POINT.

Fazil wakil can keep on digging his ancestral shrines.

With all due respect to Sir Seyed who tried his best
to bring in movements of "progress" ( not communist)
and development among muslims, I never expected from
him, a mufti type, piety, even having a thick enormous
beard, but atleast he tried to wake muslims up to face
the reality, he succeded in it, yes, some drawbacks
on his personal account does not matter much, remember,
we were all slaves !!! I will differ from him in many
ways but no doubt he is one of the pillers of muslim
awakened conscience in Brit India where muslims were
purposely left behind by the Brits and Hindu rascles.

Fazil Wakil is încapable to understand the TWO Nation
theory, in other historical words " do qaumi Nazaria "
M A J declared 25.000 times that on the basis of
do qaumi Nazaria, he wanted partition of India at the
time of colonial departure, and that partition will
we in favour of majority consisting muslim regions
called Pakistan,
Kashmir, Hydeabad and Junagargh was militarily
invaded by liar Nehru, East Bengale remained with
Pakistan,
thats another topic Fazil wakil will be interogated
later by the defence,

Fazil wakil is demanded to explain why, for whome, how,
Pakistan was demanded and snatched away from Brit-hindu
conspiracy ?

And if Pakistan was created for Hasharat-ul-Behar or
for Hindus, Sikh, Qadianis, Suffis ?

The rest of your missive is really boring to death !

The only thing I would tell you Fazil Wakil that

MY GREATEST BABA M A J, NICKED, BRITS AND OTHER INDIAN
PARASITES AT THE SAME TIME, AND I KNOW THE EVIL HAS
NEVER PARDONNED THIS TO THE GREATEST OF ALL M A J.

IN MY EVERY BREADTH, UNTIL I DIE, WILL ALWAYS THANK
BABA FOR THE HIGHEST FAVOUR ON ME, I WAS BORN FREE.

Mohammed Ali Jinnah The Greatest Leader on Earth

@readinglord,
MAJ had agreed to an independent and united Bangladesh in 1947. It was unfortunately, Nehru again who vetoed it because he felt that this would mean “balkanization”. As for Two Nation Theory – Pakistan’s creation replaced two communal nations with two geographical ones. Hence Jinnah’s 11th August speech and other 30 pronouncements about there being no bar on the basis of faith.
Unfortunately, we did not follow his vision.

Chishti vs Kashmiri! A good debate indeed! I live near the Jinnah Heights on the Islamabad Highway which is bedecked with a bust of the Quaid. This bust once remained lighted at night and en lighted our house even during load sheddings, but now now it ever remains shrouded in darkness even when there is light all around, even in his motto of 'Discipline'. His 'Faith' and 'Unity' also remain in the dark. What message does this convey? Is it not 'blasphemous'?

Btw, what about 'Two-Nation' theory! Kashmiries and Bangladeshies are nations in their own right but we cannot
call ourselves even Muslim as of right.

Jinnah however was a Khoja Ithna Ashari ...it is a sub-sect that constitutes ex Ismaili Khojas. Jinnah's family converted enmasse to Ithna Ashari Islam and became part of Khoja Ithna Ashari community. Jinnah once said that it was not out of rancor or hatred for Hindus that he asked for Pakistan and he was right. After all his entire social life consisted of primarily Hindus...and technically speaking, Jinnah was part of the Hindu bourgeoisie since Khoja Ismailis and ithna asharis followed Hindu family law ...and Jinnah himself remained part of the emerging Bombay glitterati ...which came with British inspired prosperity and culture. It was natural that Jinnah was so strongly a part of the Congress.

The rationale for Pakistan lies in the interests of the nascent Muslim bourgeoisie which was belated ...since for the longest time mullahs stopped Muslims from acquiring western education ...till ofcourse Sir Syed came to the scene.

Sir Syed also managed to ossify a muslim identity when he urged Muslims not to join the Congress (which is why only a few joined like Tyabji and Jinnah)...

Secularism does not make a nation into an atheist, but it does make the tolerance of all religious believes possible and in a nation with multiple religious believes, each religion must be provided with the space to exist without being dominated or persecuted by one particular religion that has the offical patronage of the state.

The argument, whether MAJ was secularist or Islamist only makes sense if point was that Pakistan was created in the name of a religion, but it was not. Pakistan was created to ensure the consitutional, economic and religious, cultural freedoms of Indian Muslims and had Congress agreed to these demands, MAJ would not have pursued the case of the Indian Muslims to the point of partition in 1947.

I had come up with credible references and I don’t see any of MAJ’s quotes?

Awab, it's not baseless - all I could see till the evening is 19 comments and the rest as if somehow - someone limited my viewing! maybe it's my fault - I respect your judgment and appreciate your honesty - must have been connection problems!

@ To Fazil Wakil
Teeth Maestro might be your Dandaan-saaz, not mine,
he uses a lot of local anaesthesia ! unlike his faher
Ilahi, ok lets go on !!!
One has to clean thick layer of filth over Pak history,

absolutely rubbish, MAJ never ever used the terms
socialist, communist, secular, religionless, Godless,
aetheist, pantheists, progressive (only meant development)

You know well that the period, post WW2, branded and
associated the word " progressive " to
Communisim/Socialism/Marxism, so do'nt come with that.
The only concrete message I can get from your radio
recorded message (supposedly)of MAJ, is
" we do'nt want a vatican in Pakistan "
and by far a Socilaist Republic,neither,
nobody is interested in having them.
The rest, about minority, MAJ was taught the
teachings of Islam, to respect minorities. I don't know
if you have knowdege of Islamic history. !

Did, Secular Russia respected minorites ?? or any
comtemprary Political entity, a country like France, UK
Holland etc etc.

before in your comment

The international Protocolaire message was not the
national Internal policy of Jinnah,
The word
" Fanatics " I have reserves, rather suspicions, on the
usage of such terms only arrived in public in late 70s,
atleast in the comtemporary English or French language
Political journalism, or is it MAJ's own words.

Whereas MAJ's epoch, they were all talking nothing but
Che Gevara, Marx, Engels, Trotsky, Castro, Mao, Ghandi
Buddha and all kind of mortals.

Do'nt get nervous, the whole Qadiani tribe is against
Mullah, Maulevis, Muftis, Maulanas, hajis, Mujahids,
Qazis etce etc, AND YOU KNOW WELL, WHY ?
There is a huge vague and trend to be anti-religious,
without even thinking, but the same are somewhere found
practicing rituals of Buddhist, Hindus, pagans, and
approving the Hindu-cult.

@Ali Chishti

I would appreciate if you avoid throwing accusations around that 'someone is trying to censor your comments' there are none - the only comments that get trashed are comments that use profanity or vulgar language. rest I have no interest in stopping the discussion that is progress. If you and others can talk to each other with respect, then its all ok - but if someone starts to get carried away then its best left off this discussion forum

@Karachikhatmal,

noway, there are many, including myself who were
busy enquiring right and left to their relatives in
places severely hit. and at the moment all of us are
busy. Anyway thanks for reminding !
We must pray to AlMighty and beg His pardon !!

YOUR TEETH-MAESTRO DIDN’T ALLOWED ME POST A RESPONSE.

More of your filth – it’s pity how anyone who go against the Mullah-LINE is branded a “Qadyani”. BTW, since you loathe you so much why don’t you call me and meet up – it would be easy to throw me : 0345-9118462 call me!

As for MAJ he was a secularist here’s what he said in the US

“Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non-Muslims-Hindus, Christians and Parsis – but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan." [Feb. 1948, Jinnah’s broadcast address to the people of the United States of America]

In the interview to Weldon James of the Collier’s Weekly magazine, on or about 25th August, 1947 the Quaid said:

“We expect to evolve a progressive, democratic government, in line with the Muslim belief in the equality of all men, and to work for international peace. As I have said many times before, Pakistan guarantees the just and equal treatment of all citizens, Muslim or non-Muslim, with freedom of worship, speech, press and assembly...

“There are fanatics in all countries; and of course we have some. But the present ‘troubles’ are a hangover from old political alignments and quarrels, stirred up from the outside, and I do not expect any great internal difficulties anywhere in Pakistan. At last Pakistan has been established and now we are free and independent nation to mould, build and reconstruct and in this great task we need goodwill and friendship of all great nations”. (Quaid-e-Azam papers F. 135-GG/5-10).

I could quote you hundreds of statements

@ Karachikhatmal,

shut up, and try to give your blood if its worth, you
never know, perhaps you carry Barrister's English one.

@ Barrister Chishti,

its total shame for seculars/marxist of Pakistan
to lie about MAJ, usually we can identify these liars
who have been lying since 40 years now that MAJ was a
secular, it is a lie which can be compared with as if
one is not sure his/her parents have changed their sexes.

The thing is that Pak Seculars know the truth but they
LIE & LIE. They even can not take one phrase or word out
of one speech of MAJ where he would have used the word
secular for Pakistn ! I challenge the Barrister ! If he
can not prove then he will give me the right to call
him a " PIG " OK ? you can keep your Duncans in your
panteries.

its ironic that people spent all of yesterday commenting on this post, and no one bothered to add any information or contacts regarding the quake.

i had come to this website for that very reason, and i was shocked to see that all of yesterday we had people fighting with each other over their bullshit comments and couldn't be bothered to help pakistanis actually in need.

all those questioning pakistanis or muslims should just turn around and look at themselves. stop giving a f*** about yourself for one second, and try to help while its still needed.

And before I leave, now that whatever-higher-force-you-may-or-may-not-believe-in has shuffled his feet and those idiots are dying due to the earthquake, are you going to do another "haha, told ya so" post, or are you going to get up and help them, out of the sheer benevolence of your heart? Just wondering...