Ahmedis expelled from Medical College

great job.These ppl should be kicked out of pakistan as well and go to israel or anywhere but not in Pakistan

Some details here;

http://www.express.com.pk/epaper/Article.aspx?newsID=1100421613&Date=20080608&Issue=NP_LHE

No entry for clerics: Health Additional Secretary Saeed Nawaz told Daily Times that a meeting would be held with the PMC principal on the issue. He said that the department was sympathetic to Ahmadi students. He said that local cleric should not address students in college mosques.

hmmm…

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008%5C06%5C08%5Cstory_8-6-2008_pg7_24

I don’t consider Qadyanis Muslims but kicking them just because they were talking about their belief with others is not good at all. This is not in Islam at all. I think it was rather good if they were discussing their belief as there were chances that Muslims could help them to teach them the forgotten lesson and they could revert back to Islam. Afsos that IJT’s bastardness did a pathetic job in Pakistan.

[...] Awab’s [...]

Ahmadi’s are decleared non Muslim under our law but we can not take away their citizenship on basis of being non-muslim, they have equal rights to follow their religion and preach it, one might disagree on this point but this is guranteed by our constition.

On other hand Madoodi-ism is no better then Ahmadi’s, why Islami Jamiat Talba can preach the Madoodi version of distorted Islam on gun point, the simple difference between two is that IJT has guns and Talibans on their back and its an admitted fact that we are more welcomming to guns.

The basic issue is to completely ban all sort of propaganda, all organisations and entry of all so called religious leaders in educational institutions, if we allow the Hafiz Sulaman Butt of Jamat Islami to make speaches and provide arms to IJT and ban Ahmadi’s from doing so, its completely unfair and unconstitutional.

If someone of you hav wittnessed how Jamait operates in our universities, how many innocent students are killed by them, how many torcherd and expelled on gun point, you will agree with my point.

I would suggest a ban on Jamiat as well.

good step by the college auth.
appreciated

Ahmadis in Pakistan, Bahais in Iran and Wahabis in Arabia are all suspected to be colonial inventions, there are other sects in Pakistan that could also fall under the same category but are better protected!!

On the other hand fundamentalist Muslim clergy also does not have a glorious record and had their own collaborators with colonial powers and today their negative influence in the Muslim societies is far greater than that of any of these sects whose usefulness for the colonial power at least today might be over! But who knows..

However, one thing is sure that to deny people fundamental rights because of their religious beliefs or to harm and discriminate them in any way what so ever, when there is no evidence that they have done any thing to harm the country, is unjustifiable and against all norms of decency and principals. As for the democratic values of the society, what to expect from ordinary people if the university students are to behave in this way?

I do not support IJT, but at the same time just the name IJT doesn’t make me to assume all kind of ‘basterdness’ coming out of that group, as suggested by Adnan Siddiqui.

I have no sympthay for Qadiani’s tearing off ‘Khatm-e-Naboat’ posters.

It easy to get emotional but before making some serious comments I need to know the whole truth.

Should have suspended them, instead, Why so much hatred against non-muslims?

“I have no sympthay for Qadiani’s tearing off ‘Khatm-e-Naboat’ posters.”

How about sympathy for tearing off a poster that depicts prophet’s cartoons?

If your feelings have suddenly changed after reading above sentence and you are now in favour of tearing down such a poster then understand that your sense of fairness is clouded by your emotions. A poster with prophet’s cartoons deserves to be torn off but so is a khatm-e-nabuwat (in other words anti-Qadiani) poster which falls in a similar category of insulting a set of beliefs.

Everyone has a right to be treated with respect and their beliefs not insulted especially in a place where they have no choice but to turn up, such as work place or educational institutions. That is why there are codes of conduct against discrimination on religious grounds in many civilised countries. In UK for example both of the above mentioned kinds of posters will clearly fall under hate crime, which they are. That is why you don’t see non-Muslim majority students beating up Muslim students in western world.

Bottom line: If you are offended by a publication and demand its ban then you must not insult others in the same way. It is really not a case of religions at all but of respect and fairness.

Malik,

You need to get some basic education. Christianlity doesn’t mean that one has to draw anti-Muhammad Cartoons to practice his religion.

So you are suggesting that Muslims should give up the concept of Khatm-e-Nabuat in order to be labelled as fair?

If thats the case, I don’t need the label of being fair, I would rather die as Muslim than wanting the LABEL of FAIRNESS FROM YOUR MAJESTY.

Long live AbuBakar and the Sahaba who fought the False Prophets like Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani.

“You need to get some basic education. Christianlity doesn’t mean that one has to draw anti-Muhammad Cartoons to practice his religion.”

I am not sure people who do cartoon are Christian or Jewish or even if they have any religion at all. Point is those who do cartoons will find a reason to justify doing that. Question is how do you tackle such people? What are the ground rules or principals that you would want these guys to abide by? But what good are those principals if you yourself don’t abide by them?

Your solution may be to kill anyone that you disagree with (at least in the religious arena) and same is perhaps Mr Bush’s in his crusade against Muslim countries (I am sure Mr Bush thinks he is right too).

I however would prefer a non-violent solution to this clash of civilisations/religions if possible. If only all sides would agree. My hopes remain.

As a Pakistani, Ahmedis are our brothers and sisters. Even if they have been termed non-Muslims by Pakistani law, that does not mean that their rights as a human being or as a citizen are less than their Muslim counterparts.

This is a shameful incident. The principal of the college and the terrorists of Jamiat must be ashamed of their actions. (By the way, this is a sequel of what they did to Imran Khan.)

Sad incidence. This is how we disgrace Islam and nation as Muslims. What’s the point of disregarding and disowning rights as citizen of Pakistan?
It is a embarrassing episode for all nation and specially so called Muslims scholars, who deliver speeches but acts in a way that is against the ideology of Pakistan and Islamic preaching and theme.
Under no circumstances such acts should be owned .any body that abrogates and involve in activity to create mess against Pakistan and Islam should ideally be treated as traitor. The constitution of Pakistan awards protection to all resident of Pakistan and one who abrogates is not less than the dictator.

article3.
Elimination of exploitation
The State shall ensure the elimination of all forms of exploitation and the gradual fulfilment of the fundamental principle, from each according to his ability to each according to his work.

Article 4.
Right of individuals to be dealt with in accordance with law, etc.
(1)
To enjoy the protection of law and to be treated in accordance with law is the inalienable right of every citizen, wherever he may be, and of every other person for the time being within Pakistan.
(2)
In particular :-
(a)
no action detrimental to the life, liberty, body, reputation or property of any person shall be taken except in accordance with law;
(b)
no person shall be prevented from or be hindered in doing that which is not prohibited by law; and
(c)
no person shall be compelled to do that which the law does not require him to do.

article20.
Freedom to profess religion and to manage religious institutions.
Subject to law, public order and morality:-
(a)
every citizen shall have the right to profess, practise and propagate his religion; and
(b)
every religious denomination and every sect thereof shall have the right to establish, maintain and manage its religious institutions.

article22.
Safeguards as to educational institutions in respect of religion, etc.
(1)
No person attending any educational institution shall be required to receive religious instruction, or take part in any religious ceremony, or attend religious worship, if such instruction, ceremony or worship relates to a religion other than his own.
(2)
In respect of any religious institution, there shall be no discrimination against any community in the granting of exemption or concession in relation to taxation.
(3)
Subject to law:
(a)
no religious community or denomination shall be prevented from providing religious instruction for pupils of that community or denomination in any educational institution maintained wholly by that community or denomination; and
(b)
no citizen shall be denied admission to any educational institution receiving aid from public revenues on the ground only of race, religion, caste or place of birth.

(4)
Nothing in this Article shall prevent any public authority from making provision for the advancement of any socially or educationally backward class of citizens.

Article 25. Equality of citizens.
(1) All citizens are equal before law and are entitled to equal protection of law.
(2) There shall be no discrimination on the basis of sex alone.
(3) Nothing in this Article shall prevent the State from making any special provision for the protection of women and children.

article27.
Safeguard against discrimination in services.
(1)
No citizen otherwise qualified for appointment in the service of Pakistan shall be discriminated against in respect of any such appointment on the ground only of race, religion, caste, sex, residence or place of birth.
Provided that, for a period not exceeding [16][forty] years from the commencing day, posts may be reserved for persons belonging to any class or area to secure their adequate representation in the service of Pakistan:
Provided further that, in the interest of the said service, specified posts or services may be reserved for members of either sex if such posts or services entail the performance of duties and functions which cannot be adequately performed by members of the other sex.
(2)
Nothing in clause (1) shall prevent any Provincial Government, or any local or other authority in a Province, from prescribing, in relation to any post or class of service under that Government or authority, conditions as to residence in the Province. for a period not exceeding three years, prior to appointment under that Government or authority.

ASLAM_U_ALEIKUM!

i m here 2 comment on dr.razahaidar’s comments,MashALLAH my brother has knowlege of constitution of PAK..sorry 2 say but i have 2 say that ye Ahmedi log minority nahi balki fitna ha,shayad fitna ki definition kernay ki zarorat nahi ha..me thorri c history bata doon jo sab jantay hi hon ge.
qadiyani angrezon ki paidawar hein jo sirf iss liye paida kiya gaye k wo pareshan they k ye muslim itnay muthid hein in ko torra kesay jaye,unhon ne merza gulam jo qadiyaan ka rehnay wala tha usay ye kaam sonpa k muslamano k faith ko kharab kerna ha….or uss banday nein (nauzobillah)kabhi apnay aap ko HAZRAT MUHAMMED(PBUH) kaha(naouzobillah) kabhi wo Isaa-Ibn-e-maryem bana,uss ne kalma badla,quran me apni addition ki….in short itnaa fitna phelaya ki ALLAH ki panna…..ye sab batana isliye zarori ha ki kisi chez pe comment kernay se pehlay uss pe thorri boht tehqeeq zaroor honi chahiye,,,app jo b in comments ko parrhay plz tehqeeq karain….
hum kabhi b apnay kisi dushman ko apnay ghar rakhain ge bhalla?koi nahi chahta k fitna uss k ghar per parwaan charrhay phir ham in qadiyaaniyoon ko minorites k rights de kar kiyoon apnay ghar me ghusa rahay hein?…
in ki jitni tazlil karo ge utna accha ha,FSB me jo hoa accha hoa…
Dr.sahib apnay constitution ka hawala diya ab zara mera hawala b sunain…apko pata ha ye log apnay apko MUSLIM kehtay hein?…
ager app Pakistan PENAL CODE ki provision 298-c pe goor karain tu ye 1 juram ha,,me apki mushkil asan kernay k liye idher hi likh deta hoon
PPC section 298-c
“PERSON OF QADIYANI GROUP,ETC.,CALLING HIMSELF A MUSLIM OR PREACHING OR PROPOGATING HIS FAITH…any person of the qadiyani group or the Lahori gruop(who call themselves ‘Ahmedi or by any other name),who directly or indirectly,posses himself as a muslim,or cals,or refers to,his faith as Islam,or preaching or propogates hi faith,or invites other to accept his faith,by words,either spoken or written,or by visible representation or in any manner whatsoever outrages the religion feelings of Muslim shall be punished with imprisonment of either discription for a term wich may extend to three years and shall also b liable to fine”

The problem with our nation is that we succumb to hate mongerers so easily. People are angry because they are depressed by situations with the inflation and lack of food in the market and when someone in the heat of the day provokes them to come out and fight what HE thinks is wrong they take the whole thing out on the poor people that hate was spread again.

Can anyone answer me some basic things?

- What does Islam say about preaching the religion?

I heard it was ‘La Iqraha Fid Dinn’ - there is no ‘jabar’ (force required) in the preaching of Islam.

- When the Holy Prophet (PBUH) himself said there is no forceful way of spreading Islam, why are our clerics and the Jamiats and people like them oppressing others in the name of Islam?

To me it is a clear way of saying what Hazur (PBUH) taught us does not matter, only what those ignorant molvis say matters.

Just to clarify the Ahmadi belief on Khatm-e-nabuat;

- Ahmadis do believe Hadrat Mohommad (PBUH) to be the Khatim un Nabiyyeen.

- Ahmadis believe that Hadrat Mohommad (PBUH) was the seal of all prophets, the best, the one most loved by Allah Almighty and the one with whom Allah Almighty completed his religion.

- Ahmadis believe that Allah is still the God that spoke to Hadrat Musa, the God who shared some of his hidden secrets with His Momen men and women.

The God that was always active and the God that will always be active and loving to His creation. Do you believe God to be something else today? If you do I would like to know your view on Allah Almighty. If you do believe him to be the same God, and you believe God to never lie and believe His verses in the Hold Quran are for ever then why do you think he would break away from his ’sunnat’ of sending prophets to mankind to teach them the right path?

The Holy Prophet, in whose name there is so much oppression in Pakistan, was the man who spread the message of peace and who said when Masih-ibn-Maryam comes give him my salam even if you have to walk there while kneeling on fozen ice (lose translation that, if anyone can provide it better its most welcome).

Another question I want to put up here, for anyone who wishes to open mindedly discuss anything is;

- If the Holy Prophet (PBUH) is the most loved Prophet of Allah, one for whom I believe God made this Universe, Why did God not give him even ONE prophet in his ‘ummat’? God gave Hadrat Musa a follower prophet in the shape of hadrat Issa, why not Hazur (PBUH)? Is a prophet not needed? if not, why are we waiting for Isa ibne Maryam?

- If we say Allah is going to send Issa ibne Maryam who is a prophet of ONLY the Isrealites and a follower of hadrat Musa, to teach the ummat of Hazrat Mohommad (PHUB) is that interpretation not insulting for Allah’s most loved prophet?

To me it is like saying this person is the best professor in the world, and since he is such a great person, there has to be a desciple of another professor who will teach this professor’s class. Why not a prophet from amongst Hazrat Mohommad (PBUH)’s own ‘ummat’? After all, he is the prophet for the whole world, that was never the station Allah appointed Musa with, or Issa.

I have taken up perhapd too much of your time, sorry about that and if the blog owner does allow this post, I would like to know other people’s views on the topic. After all, this is the ahmadiya community that is not allowed to say ‘Salam’ by law, those who are not allowed to say their prayers, or recite the darud-e-mohommadi that Allah said everyone should recite.

Is that ban fair to Islam itself? I mean how many have you grinned when a Christian has said assalam-o-alikum to you? do you know they believe in trinity? not the one God as Muslims do or as Ahmadis do? can you, and would you, ban them from saying Salam? A good word coming from any mouth should be considered a blessing, but in our country sadly it is the mulla who decides these things…those who the Prophet Mohommad (PBUH) said would be the worst of all creations in the time when the world will need the Masiah.

Ahmed dont play ur game//i have enough information about qadiyanies…i have refrences too..should i publish here what is d real picture of qadiyaanies?

Q: Who are Qadiyanis?

A: Qadiyanis also known as Mirzai, Ahmadi, Lahori, etc. are a sect of people who do not believe that prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was the last prophet. The founder of the sect Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835 - 1908) claimed to be the Messiah whose advent has been foretold by the Holy prophet of Islam and whose advent was awaited by Jews, Christians and Muslims. The mainstream muslims do not consider Qadiyanis muslims

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani, the fonder of Qadiyanism or Ahmadism, so called Ahmadiya Movement in Islam wrote about prophesies of a prophet:

a. The Torah and the Qur’an admit that the most truthful evidence of prophethood are the prophesies, and

b. It is not possible that God’s revelations be not confirmed by their fulfillment.

Let us examine the prophesies of the writer who claimed himself to be a prophet (nabi) and the Promised Messiah (al-Masih al-Maw’oud). If a single prophecy is not fulfilled, it would show that such a prophet is an imposter and a liar.

Rains and earthquakes
Ghulam Ahmad wrote, “God revealed to me that frequent rains will come down. Due to their frequency villages will be destroyed. After them will follow severe earthquakes”. He did not specify where and when. If it was to be in India, there are some regions which receive a lot of rain and there are other areas which feel earthquakes. This is not a prophecy.

Abdullah Atham’s death
A Christian, Abdullah Atham entered into a debate with Mirza Ghulam Ahmad in 1893; neither succeeded in winning over the other. It was embarrassing to Ghulam Ahmad and feeling insulted, on June 5, 1883 he announced that he had been informed by God that Abdullah Atham would die within fifteen months, that is, September 5, 1894. Ghulam Ahmad supplicated to God for the death of Abdullah Atham by his announced date of death and he asked his followers to join him in praying for the curse to come true. The deadline came and went but Abdullah Atham lived and for a long time. Ghulam’s invocations and supplications were of no use and Allah proved that he was not His prophet.

Multiple marriages
On February 20, 1886 Ghulam Ahmad declared that indeed Allah revealed to him that he shall marry blessed women and he shall have numerous children from these new wives. He was then 46 years old. The fact remains that he could not marry anyone after his declared revelation from Allah despite several efforts and a crush on Muhammadi Begum.

Marriage to Muhammadi Begum
Ghulam Ahmad at age 46 had a crush on a young lady by the name of Muhammadi Begum daughter of Ahmad Beg, one of his followers. Ghulam asked her father to marry her to himself which he refused. Ghulam Ahmad announced a prophecy that she will be married to him because Allah had married her to him and no one had power to turn away from that becoming true. He offered bribes of estate and wealth to Ahmad Beg. When it did not work he begged for his pity, brought family pressure and finally made threats. The first prophecy of marriage to Muhammadi Begum failed.

Ahmad Beg did not budge from his position and married his daughter to an ordinary soldier. Ghulam Ahmad prophesied that the husband of Muhammadi Begum would die soon and she would be married to him since their marriage had taken place in the heavens. He fixed a three year period for the death of the soldier husband of his beloved lady. Twenty two years later Ghulam Ahmad died but the soldier lived for another forty years and she lived even longer. The second prophecy of marriage to Muhammadi Begum failed.

A spark of the light of God
A son was born to Ghulam Ahmad on June 14, 1899 when he was 59 years old. He gave him the name, Mubarak Ahmad and declared, “this lad is indeed a spark of the light of God, the promised reformer, the owner of greatness and authority, possessor of healing breath like the Messiah, curer of diseases, a word of God and lucky. He will become famous in the four corners of the world, he will set prisoners free and through him all nations will be blessed.”

Allah had His plan to prove once again that Ghulam Ahmad was neither a prophet nor “the Promised Messiah” by showing that He did not reveal anything to him nor inspired him with anything nor chose him a prophet nor divinely guided him (Mehdi). Mubarak Ahmad died of natural causes at age 8 in 1907, less than a year before the death of the false prophet and the false messiah.

The birth of another son
When Ghulam Ahmad’s wife became pregnant, he announced on January 1, 1903, “Praise be to Allah Who bestowed upon me in spite of old age four sons and has given me good news of a fifth”. On January 28, 1903 his wife delivered a daughter who died in infancy. This was first failed prophecy of a son.

His wife became pregnant again and he prophesied that she will deliver a son about whom he said, “the son of nobility will be born - a lad goodly-shaped and handsome.” She delivered a baby girl on June 24, 1904. This was the second failed prophecy of a son.

Again a son
After two disappointments and proving himself to be a false prophet, he announced again that Allah had given him the news, “Verily, We give you tidings of a meek boy.” He announced the date of the birth of the boy to be September 16, 1907 which was never fulfilled. This was the third false prophecy of a son.

In October 1907 he pronounced yet another revelation from Allah, “I shall soon bestow upon you a righteous boy” and his name was announced to be Yahya. Alas, the prophesied son never came and the false prophet Ghulam Ahmad himself died on May 26, 1908. This was the fourth false prophecy of a son.

A son to one of his followers
Manzoor Muhammad, one of his followers, informed him that his wife was pregnant. Ghulam Ahmad prophesied cautiously in stages that Manzoor’s wife will deliver a boy from this pregnancy or from a later pregnancy and child’s name will be “Bashir-ud-Dawla”. After such safeguards in his prophecy he emphasized, “Manzoor Muhammad’s wife shall not die unless she gives birth to this noble son and until his prophecy is fulfilled.”

Manzoor Muhammad’s wife delivered a baby girl and afterwards she never conceived and died without giving a boy. Doesn’t it look like Ghulam Ahmad was working against Allah’s Will?

The plague
Ghulam Ahmad feared plague very much and declared it to be one of his signs. He prophesied that the epidemic then ravaging in the Indian Province of Punjab will not enter his town of Qadiyan because it was the dwelling place of “God’s prophet.” God proved him a liar again. Plague spread in Qadiyan and in Ghulam Ahmad’s own house; his maid and a few of his followers died of plague.

The death of Dr. Abdul Hakim
Dr. Abdul Hakim entered into a discussion with Ghulam Ahmad, challenged him to an open debate and called him a liar. Ghulam Ahmad did not take it very well and prophesied, “Abdul Hakim will die during my life-time as he insults and disgraces me.” On May 4, 1907 Dr. Abdul Hakim responded with his own prediction that Ghulam Ahmad will die within fifteen months, that was by August 4, 1908. Ghulam Ahmad responded to Dr. Abdul Hakim’s prediction by adding to his own prophecies:

(a) Dr. Abdul Hakim will die during the life-time of Ghulam Ahmad, and,

(b) Ghulam Ahmad will live to be eighty years of age, which was to be 1920 or later.

Ghulam Ahmad died within a year on May 26, 1908, at age 68 and Dr. Abdul Hakim lived for many more years to become an old man.

Ghulam Ahmad’s prophecies and self deprecation

On various occasions when he announced a prophecy he would self-deprecate if the prophecy was not fulfilled. A few of his announcements are given below:

1. “If what I have said does not happen exactly, I am prepared for every punishment. My face be blackened and I be insulted. A rope be put round my neck and I be hanged”.

2. “Prepare for me a cross if my falsehood is exposed and curse me more than the Satan, the evil and the accursed.”

3. Regarding his burning love and lust for Muhammadi Begum, a daughter of one of his followers, he said, “Her marriage (to me) is a settled affair. I swear by God that this is true. They shall not have the power to thwart its occurrence. God Almighty has said, ‘We have ourselves married her to you, it is not possible that My words may change’.”

Further, he said, “There is no changing of the Word of Allah. The meaning is that this prophecy of mine is bound to become true as the failure of its fulfillment falsifies the Word of God”.

In fact, the Word of God is never falsified but a liar speaking in the name of God is exposed. He further said, “If this prophecy does not turn out to be true I shall be the most evil of the evils, ye fools!” Well! He proved himself what he was.

4. “But if this prophecy is not from Thee, O God, then perish me in disgrace and total loss and make me accursed and peltable in Thy view.”

5. “For ascertainment of my truthfulness or my falsehood there is no better thing than my prophesies.” Well! We know the truth, don’t we?

Allah repeatedly failed Ghulam Ahmad in his prophecies to prove to the world that this man was a liar, an imposter and an inventor of a new religion which was not Islam.

References to the quotations and events mentioned in this brochure may be found in QADIYANIAT, AN ANALYTICAL SURVEY by Ehsan Elahi Zaheer, published by Idara Tarjuman Al-Islam, Shish Mahal Road, Lahore, Pakistan, 1981, Chapter VII, pp.184-226.

“hum kabhi b apnay kisi dushman ko apnay ghar rakhain ge bhalla?koi nahi chahta k fitna uss k ghar per parwaan charrhay phir ham in qadiyaaniyoon ko minorites k rights de kar kiyoon apnay ghar me ghusa rahay hein?…”

>> If you know a little history of Islam, Hazrat Mohommad (PBUH)’s ’sunnat’ contradicts you. He was the man you profess to follow but how many people did he burn? How many did he beat up just because he was powerful? Or for his own sake?

Hazur (PBUH) was the man who said anyone who stays in his house is saved today, anyone who does not pick a weapon to fight is saved today and that was said to the Kuffar of Makkah; the people who had tortured him mentally, had insulted him at every corner and tortured his followers and the closest of friends…you profess to be the follower of the man who was a blessing to all living and a blessing for all times?

If you follow him, at least have the decency of not torturing those that live in the land with you. They are humans; they have rights as humans even if as nothing else. Why can you not protect their rights? Ok, if you are not noble enough to protect them, do not do that but do not inflict more torture on them at least!

Why should Israel not kill the Palestinians? Why should Hindus not kill Muslims in Kashmir? Why is Pakistan crying about HUMAN RIGHT VIOLATIONS anywhere in the world when you do not believe IN Pakistan that HUMANS HAVE RIGHTS!?

We need some introspection people, ‘apnay girehbaan main jhank kai daikho’ and ask yourself are you any better than those Jews that have tanks and bulldozers so they tear down villages in Palestine? You have a say here in Pakistan, do you not oppress others when you can? If you can not save your fellow Pakistanis, fellow humans from your own wrath, why do you think Allah should save you from anyone else’s wrath. Does Allah not say, ‘one that killed a human killed humanity?’

We have to correct ourselves and pray for our sins because why would Allah like or help a man who has some power and he uses it against another to do a wrong? Allah does not wrong anyone, he like merciful people. If this is how you are spreading Islam, God help Islam because it was never the Holy Prophet’s way of preaching, he always told his battle commanders to not touch the temples of those they won against even…which Islam is being followed in Pakistan?

Fatwas and Statements of Islamic Scholars about Ahmadiyya

1974 Declaration by World Muslim League (Rabita al-Alam al-Islami) by Mohammad Bashir

World Muslim League held its annual conference at Makkah Al-Mukaramma Saudi Arabia from 14th to 18th of Rabiul Awwal 1394 H (April 1974) in which 140 delegations of Muslim countries and organizations from all over the world participated. I (Mohammad Bashir) too was there in this Conference alongwith the other journalists from all over the world. The Conference unanimously adopted the following Resolution regarding Qadianism.

Qadianism or Ahmadiyyat: It is a subversive movement against Islam and the Muslim world, which falsely and decietfully claims to be an Islamic sect; who under the guise of Islam and for the sake of mundane interests contrives and plans to damage the very foundations of Islam. Its eminent deviations from the basic Islamic principles are as follows:

Its founder claimed that he was a Prophet.
They deliberately distort the meanings of the verses of the Holy Quran.
They decalred that Jehad has been obolished.
Qadianism was originally fostered by the British imperialism. Hence it has been flourishing under her flag. This movement has completely been disloyal to and dishonest in affairs of the Muslim Ummah. Rather, it has been loyal to Imperialism and Zionism. It has deep associations and cooperation with the anti Islamic forces and teachings especially through the following nefarious methods:

Construction of mosques with the assistance of the anti Islamic forces wherin the misleading Qadiani thoughts are imparted to the people.
Opening of schools institutions and orphanages wherein the people are taught and trained as to how they can be more anti Islamic in their activities. They also published the corrupted versions of the Holy Quran in different local and international languages.
In order to combat these dangers, the Conference recommends the following measures:

All the Muslim organization in the world must keep a vigilant eye on all the activities of Qadianisin their respective countries; to confine them all strictly to their schools, institutions and orphanages only. Moreover he Muslims of the world be shown the true picture of Qadianism and be briefed of their various tactics so that the Muslims of the world be saved from their designs .
They must be declared non Muslims and ousted form the fold of Islam. And be barred to enter the Holy lands.
There must be no dealings with the Qadianis. They must be coycotted socially , economically and culturally Nor they be married with or to Nor they be allowed to be buried in the Muslims graveyards. And they be treated like other non Muslims.
All the Muslim countries must impose restrictions on the activities of the claimant of Prophethood Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani’s followers; must declare them a non Muslim minority must not etrust them them with any post of responsibility in any Muslim country.
The alterations effected by them in the Holy Quran must be made public and the people be briefed of them and all these be prohibited for further publication.
All such groups as are deviators from islam must be treated at par with the Qadianis.

Abdullah bin Amar (RA) relates that the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) said “Surely things will happen to my people as happened earlier to Israelites, they will resemble each other like one shoe in a pair resembles the other to the extent that if anyone among the Israelites has openly committed adultery to his mother there will be some who will do this in my Ummah as well, verily the Israelites were divided into 72 sections but my people will be divided into 73 sections, all of them will be in the fire except one.” The companions asked, ‘Who are they O Messenger of Allah,’ Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “They are those who will be like me and my companions.”

Tirmidhi, Ibne Maja [3] gives three independent narrations of the same hadith.

By the constitution of Pakistan, the 72 sects decided the Ahmadis were not one of them. Please read some literature, please look at what is happening around you and then pray to God Almighty. He is the only one that can guide us to the right path and all 72 of your sects can unite and say that one sect is wrong, Allah is the decider.

Just ask yourself does Allah give you the right to torture or harm fellow humans still? When did the Prophet Mohommad (PBUH) allow men to torture women like they did in the PMC? Do not take that great man of God’s name when you commit sins against others.

“References to the quotations and events mentioned in this brochure may be found in QADIYANIAT, AN ANALYTICAL SURVEY by Ehsan Elahi Zaheer, published by Idara Tarjuman Al-Islam, Shish Mahal Road, Lahore, Pakistan, 1981, Chapter VII, pp.184-226.”

You never asked any one of my questions, you only made allegations that are baseless, ones I do not wish to get into because their source is questionable and it becomes a case of ‘he said-she said’ finger pointing.

When you want to know what a person thinks, or a sect thinks, go to an unbiased observer or ask the person or read what that person wrote. I would advise you to read what the Ahmadis say istead of reading what their enemies say about them because you are judging them. Mirza Gulam Ahmad Qadiyani did indeed have a son who was prophesized by Allah. He lived to be the Second Caliph of the Ahmadis.

The plague never killed an Ahmadi in Qadiyan, your source lies.

You can read about Ahmadis on http://www.alislam.org or a new site I just looked up, http://www.real-islam.org .

I do not ask you to believe me. I just ask you to research Ahmadis by reading what they have to say. Only Allah knows what is in the heart, no molvi knows that and yet they profess to know what Allah says only he knows.

And by the way, the question remains: does Islam allow you to torture fellow humans in the name of Islam? Or does Islam tell you to be merciful and helpful to others? Do Ahmadis, even if they are the curse on Muslims as you claim them to be, not have rights as humans? Christians in Pakistan have those rights, but Ahmadis do not? Do you really think Shirk is not a bigger sin than THINKING a person to be a follower prophet of Hadrat Mohommad (PBUH)?

Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was the last of the Prophets of Allah and he had warned Muslims that there will be many liars who would claim to be Prophet.

AbuBakar (May Allah be pleased with him) and Sahaba, who were the best of the Ummat fought and killed two of those false Prophets.

Qadiani’s have nothing to do with Islam. Their teachings are to decieve Naive Muslims. They pretend to be Muslims and follow most of the Muslim rituals but their belief that Muhammad was not the last prophet makes them Non-Muslims.

For a moment, I will suppose you are right on this. I will suppose Ahmadis are liars. What does Islam tell you about the rights of other humans? Where does Islam say that, if someone does not belong to the same religion as you, you should make life hell for them? That you should attack them? and torture them?

Islam is a great religion because it preaches tolerance, the prophet in whose name the Jamiat is spreading hate preached tolerance, which Islam do you follow? that of Allah Almighty or of the mulla? because the Islam the mulla preaches is the distorted face of the beautiful religion of God that has become the source of terror in the world. You can not be Muslims without being good humans first.

Yeah sure, let’s take the Ahmedis and burn them. Let’s take a girl that dared to have a boy friend and disfigure her, let’s rape another because her brother did some thing, while we are at it, let’s round up all the gays put them in a pit and stone them to death..oh oh almost forgot, let’s put check points in the streets and check every body’s papers and make them pray to prove and demonstrate that they are really Muslims, stone, kill, decapitate discriminate, imprison all in the name of a God religion and prophet that you claim is kind, vitreous, generous, forgiving and all the rest. Your adversaries occupying illegal lands in the middle-east and their cronies in the west are just having a hard time containing their joy, they are excited that you will not pass on any occasion to make an ass out of yourselves and become laughing stock of the world. Keep it up guys keep it up… this must be God’s will!

People can worship whatever they like but they can not be allowed to lead people to false religions.

Muslims do not need medals of *HONOR* from Qadianis and their supporters.

Qadiani’s want to corrupt the religion of Allah. They want to belie Muhammad when he said I am the last prophet and if there were a prophet after me, it would have been Umar (may Allah be pleased with him).

Mirza Ghulam Qadian was a confused person. First he claimed he was Imam Mahdi, then he claimed he is Jesus Christ and then he claimed Prophethood. May Allah curse him, Ameen.

Qadinais, You corrupt our religion and stab us in our backs and expect candies and flowers in return?

Are you stopping the Christins from preaching their religion? are you stopping the Jews? NO. Why? because they have power over you. Islam is Allah’s religion, he will not let it be distorted, those that ask for Allah’s help get his guidance, Ahmadis are no one to mislead anyone. Look at your fellow Pakistanis and check who they are influenced by, they are influenced by the western culture, it is not Ahmadis misleading them.

But Allah says, ’sumun bukmum umyun la yurjaoun’ so a thing of sense does not matter because the capacity to absorb it has been stamped shut. It is extremely sad that you profess the love of Hadrat Mohomman PBUH and yet never think that love only begets love, it never can beget hatred unless you are misled about the love in the first place.

I have a feeling the real issue here that is the rule of law will drown in this useless religious debate. I am not sure what both sides are doing trying to convert each other when this is not the right forum for this. If anyone would listen I would say cut down this debate, who’s beliefs are right is not the issue here, what rights one has and how to uphold them is.

My question to people who think and talk about rights of other people specially Qadiani’s have they forgotten about Murtads and war against them.

Have they forgotten about Hazrat Mohammed (pbuh) when he destroyed all idols
did anyone stood up and said what are the rights of Mushrakeen.

When qadiyani say there is another nabi after MOHAMMED PBUH that means that QURAN is wrong and existence of Mahammed is wrong and he is false Allah nauz o bilah.

And people who follow them are Fools and murtadis should be killed including my own friends and family.

In 1950 Afghan Govt sent few army officers to USSR for training and they came back few(10) turning socialist. They started spreading concept and they were not stopped because of right thing.

what happened that most of army started buying it and became socialist and app 20 yrs later USSR was in Afghanistan and rest u know as well.

REMEMBER: NIP THE EVIL IN THE BUD.

Saying that JAMIAT is not good. People and groups like them make and didtort Islam. but atleast tehy are not Murtids.

May I ask Mr AHMED IS HE IN USA OR IN PAKISTAN.

Countries are not governed by fatwa’s and day to day grievances and desire of the people .what you have said is a truth that can not be denied neither negate but constitution of Pakistan is the constitution of Islamic republic of Pakistan laid down under the authoritative criteria of Islamic preaching and requirement.

As per article 20
Freedom to profess religion and to manage religious institutions.
Subject to law, public order and morality:-
(a)
every citizen shall have the right to profess, practise and propagate his religion; and
(b)
every religious denomination and every sect thereof shall have the right to establish, maintain and manage its religious institutions.

If I set aside every concept and contest whether negating or favoring ahmedis, I would left with a choice question that, what should be done with qaadiyanis according to the teaching of Islam and prophet (pbuh) and Sunnah/qoran?
Regardless of their fitna activities and anti Islam role, what if such people are born in Pakistan under the citizen ship act and Pakistan being Islamic state based on ideology of Islam.

under what provision of Islamic law and constitution and shariah law ,we can deny the existence of these qaadiyanis .under what umbrella Islam allow permission to act against these individual on discriminatory basis or legalize the killing or debarring under the act of citizen ship ,existence and education, etc.

The traditional slogan of muslim was floated at the day of victory of mecca,explaining the contest and theme of islam that “today even the house of abu sufian would get clemency and any body hiding even at the house of sufian would be given peace.

This is the Islamic ideology of Pakistan that is a basis of this country .who ever enters in to this state ,he would have equal rights as being enjoyed by muslim.regards.

The sad irony… Pakistan’s staunchest supporters who gave up everything for its creation are being told to go to Israel by the followers of those who opposed the creation of Pakistan.

Musalman toe sub ke liaya salamati ka nishan honay chahian. Abhi hummain khud appni Isslah ki zaroorat ha. Allah hum sub ko Hidaiat de Amin.

ASLAM_U_ALEIKUM
any body can justfy any thing wether with logics or illogically…but v have 2 see things behind the seen.
as being a muslim it is my faith n my duty to observe to observe n protect my religion,Qadiyanies are d worst enemy of my religion how should i react if they insult my prophet(PBUH)?
whether i say ok ok they have freedom of expression or freedom of religion i m fine with it,,,no never…
every person have the limit of his senstivness..
Qadiyanies are fitnaaas they should b kicked out of my house n of my country,i have a strong proof behind my this thinkings///wich is

Claim to being The Last Prophet

“I have told so many times that according to the verse “Wa Akhareen Menhom” (Along with others of them…) - in the incarnate form, I am the same last of the Prophets (Nabi Khatamul Ambia). Twenty two years ago, God named me in the Braheen-e-Ahmadia Muhammad and Ahmad and declared that I am the entity of the holy Prophet(SAW). Thus my prophethood in no way clashes with the status of holy Prophet(pbuh) as the Last of Prophets, because shadow is inseparable from the original. Since I am Muhammad in a ’shadowy way’, thus this way the Seal of the Last of the Prophets is not broken, because the prophethood of Muhammad(pbuh) remained with Muhammad (Mirza Ghulam).”
(Ek-Ghalati-Ka-Izala, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 18, P. 212; Ek-Ghalati-Ka-Izala, P. 8)

“Blessed (is) he who has recognized me. Of all the paths of God I am the last path, and of all His lights I am the last light. Unfortunate is he who forsakes me, because without me all is darkness.”
(Kashti-e-Nooh, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 19, P. 61; Kashti-e-Nooh, P. 56, First Edition, Qadian 1902)

“The Prophethood ended on our Prophet(pbuh). Therefore after Him there is no Prophet except who has been illuminated by His Light and who has been made His inheritor by God. Know that Finality was given to Muhammad(pbuh) since the Beginning; and then given to him (Mirza Ghulam) who was taught by His Spirit and made His shadow. Thus blessed is the one who taught and blessed is the one who learned (Mirza Ghulam). Thus Finality was destined for the sixth millennium, which is the sixth day in the days of God…… The Promised Messiah was born in the sixth millennium.”
(Zamima Khutba Ilhamiah, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 16, P. 310)

“I am the only one selected in this Ummah to get the title of ‘Prophet ‘. No one else deserved this title.”
(Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 22, P. 407)

“Tell them that if you love God then come and follow me, so that God also loves you.”
(Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, P. 82)

“These quotations prove that except for the Promised Messiah no one else can be a Prophet…After holy Prophet (pbuh) only one Prophet was necessary and the coming of too many Prophets would have hindered the Wisdom and Schemes of God.”
(Tasheed-ul-Azhan, No.8, Vol.12, P.11, August 1917)

“Thus only one person got the status of Prophethood in the Ummah of Muhammad….except for the Promised Messiah (Mirza) no one followed holy Prophet to such perfection to be called the shadow of holy Prophet. Therefore only Promised Messiah was chosen to be called the Prophet.”
(Kalimat Al-Fasl, Review of Religions, P. 116, No. 3, Vol. 14)

Even though Mirza Ghulam had suggested that any religion without continuity of prophethood is cursed and dead, he recanted this earlier stance once he saw the reaction of the Muslim masses and, perhaps more importantly, when he dreamed of a new scheme to claim prophethood. By declaring to be Muhammad, in effect, not only he declared to be a prophet (God forbid), but also he announced that he was the very last prophet! When knowledgeable Qadianis (Ahmadis) declare to believe in the Finality of Prophethood, they really mean they believe in Finality of Prophethood in their prophet, Mirza Ghulam

Ahmed may i ask u whatever i quote is true or false?
if it is true wether Qadiyanies are entitled a bit soft corner?
plz check d refrences and give me the answer

Dr.raza i have a reply regarding ur comments…

“PPC section 298-c”
“PERSON OF QADIYANI GROUP,ETC.,CALLING HIMSELF A MUSLIM OR PREACHING OR PROPOGATING HIS FAITH…any person of the qadiyani group or the Lahori gruop(who call themselves ‘Ahmedi or by any other name),who directly or indirectly,posses himself as a muslim,or cals,or refers to,his faith as Islam,or preaching or propogates his faith,or invites other to accept his faith,by words,either spoken or written,or by visible representation or in any manner whatsoever outrages the religion feelings of Muslim shall be punished with imprisonment of either discription for a term wich may extend to three years and shall also b liable to fine”

According to this provisions they can’t preach,propogate their faith in our country…Atical 20 of PAK constitution is enumerated only for minorities…Qadiyanies ar’t minorites but FITNAAS

@Ahmad who is trying to start another debate about what is actually QADYANIAT. Please don’t do this? Don’t make any lame attempts what Qadyanis believe or not. I and many would have read their books so don’t try to fool around while you know it’s futile. The thread is about expelling of students due to their personal beliefs rather discussing pros and cons of Qadyaniat.

@DoIKnow: I am quite clear what I said. I believe dialogue is the best option to spread the message. That’s what I said.

I have read all the different comments above. (I shouldn’t have done that because this has confused my own perception about the very issue). First I want to make it clear that I also hate qaadiyanis as much as a simple Muslim dislikes them. But does this give me the right to doing any kind (not having any limits) of injustice to qaadiyanis?

I don’t want to go into stories but I want to raise certain questions here which are really confusing me on this issue.

1. If our constitution gives certain rights to all citizens to Pakistan, so is there something really wrong with our constitution? Shouldn’t the clauses, concerning the human rights and citizen rights present in the 1973 constitution, be re-written (All of these clauses have been ditto copied from the UNO Charter of human rights)? One thing that always disturbs me that why do we say that Pakistan was established on the basis of religion i.e. Islam.(We feel very proud of this sometimes as well) Because countries can never exist by having an ideology of a particular religion that’s what Islam says. What only can exist on the basis of Islam is Khilafat, a no-where followed concept today. Because it is the history of Khilafat where Jizya was taken from the non-muslims for practicing their religion. The point I’m trying to make here that countries are always formed on the basis on regions. When a particular country is established in a particular region, then the inhabitants of that region become the citizens of that country automatically. Remember people, every individual in this world has equal rights, regardless of whether he is a Muslim or not. Did anyone seek permission from Hindus or people belonging to any other religion living in this region that ‘We are going to establish a country named Pakistan whose ideology will be based on Islam. Do you have any objections? Did India ask the same question to the Muslims living there? If that was the case then it should have mentioned in the constitution that anyone deviating from Islam (Murtid; as the penalty for being Murtid in Islam is a definite death…..) or anyone trying to play with the Islamic beliefs, will be lynched severely. Because the countries are always run on constitutions, not on ideologies.

2.Was Quaid-e-Azam wrong while making this statement or he made an incomplete statement, while addressing the first Constituent Assembly of Pakistan on August 11, 1947.

“You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place or worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the State.”

What we people need to do is to understand the business of the state. What we do is just confuse the concepts of State and Khilafat. State can never discriminate people; not even on the smallest issue of concern. While this is a big issue, on which belonging to certain creed are not only discriminated but also killed. I’m not saying that we as Muslims shouldn’t deal with people trying to anything objectionable to our religion. We should deal them with the strictest means of punishment we could have. But that only can be done when you are living in a truly Religion based country i.e. Khilafat, because in Khilafat Islam runs in the bloodstream of the nation and the state as well.

3. Finally, some people said that qadiyaanis are not minorities. They are Fitnah. Fine! agreed. And the way of dealing Fitnas is always that we should crush them with a strong blow. They should be killed and even should be expelled from the country. But doesn’t it give the right to non-muslim country nations to do the same with Muslims in those countries, especially countries like India and Nepal. Let me remind you all that by the Orthodox practitioners of Hindu Religion we Muslims are still believed as Untouchables. The definition of Untouchable in Hindu books is somewhat same as we have of Fitna in our dictionaries. According to those orthodox people, “MUSALMAN HAMARA DHARAM BHRASHT KAR RAHE HAIN/ HINDUSTAN SIRF HINDOON KE LIYE HAI/ MUSALAMANON NE HAMARI DHARTI MAA KO PALEED KAR DIYA HAI” One can evidently imagine that if these sentences are allowed to be converted into actions, not a delay of a moment will be done by these orthodox Hindus to crush Muslims. But this is what the state does; protects the rights of their citizens regardless of their religions.
Now this thinking of such Hindus exist, when Muslims have never attempted to mix up their religious beliefs. If they should have done then according to our traditional beliefs, Muslims should also have been the treated the way the qaadiyaanis are treated.
4. Someone said that it all started due to conspiracy done by the Englishmen to create confusions in our religion. I want to ask how could a man with an Islamic belief even of a cheapest quality can be distracted by the beliefs of qaadiyaanis. For example, as qaadiyaanis don’t believe the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) as the Last Prophet (NA-UZUB-ILLAH); how could a Muslim be distracted by this very obvious deceiving belief. If this is the case then why don’t we get distracted by the the belief of Christians that Hazrat Issa (AS) is the son of Allah Subhan-o-taalah (NA-UZUB-ILLAH).
I may be wrong in all of my argument, so please forgive me if I have made any mistakes while writing, especially about certain Islamic beliefs.

dear no body is talking on the issue of preaching and belief .issue is simple .should any discrimination be taken in relation to their education or rights as citizen under the umbrella of islam or constitution.

simply tagging and enforcing closure of doors leading to education or legal rights is a bias attitude ,and we should not own it .

as long as they have disclosed their identity as qadyani’s ,issue is issueless.

constitution ,and law embarks and validate their existence if these qadyanis disclose their identity.

however if they conceal it they are liable to be treated in a manner as constitution has decided .

constitution of pakistan is the constitution of islamic republic of pakistan ,duly designed and formatted as per shariah /qoran and sunnah.

Sorry to all those that pointed out the debate was not about religions here. You are right, I tried many times to get back to the original topic once I had diverted but the responses I got did not let me.

@ muslim: It will take time to check references because versions of the books differ and so do page numbers but what I can confirm is that Hadrat Mirza Gulam Ahmad Qadiyani did claim to nabuaat. He claimed to be a follower prophet of Hadrat Mohommad (PBUH), . Supposing your translation is correct with a minor adjustment ’shadowy’ is different from ’shadow’ in its conotations

“Since I am Muhammad in a ’shadowy way’, thus this way the Seal of the Last of the Prophets is not broken, because the prophethood of Muhammad(pbuh) remained with Muhammad (Mirza Ghulam).”

He claims to be a shadow of Mohommad, a ‘zil’, a follower of the Holy prophet(PBUH) just as Issa was a follower of Musa. If you manage to read more of Mirza Gulam Ahmad’s books, he was born in a time when the Christian missionaries were converting Muslims in the subcontinent and there were extremely humiliating references being made to Hazrat Mohommad (PBUH). Mirza Gulam Ahmad dedicated his life to replying to those missionaries, his books aimed at glorifying the Holy Prophet. As I said, there is a lot said about Ahmadis that is incorrect but I will leave that to you all. Consider Ahmadis whatever you like but aamirhatif pointed out a few things without digressing like I did. If you can answer those honestly then we might not have a debate here.

As for the fitna you point out, here are a few who Pakistan claims to be proud of and they were Ahmadi Muslims.

Sir Zafrullah Khan:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Zafrulla_Khan

Dr Abdus Salam:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdus_Salam

There are thousands of Ahmadis in Pakistan serving the country in different posts and even while they are singled out so they are denied promotions, are victimized they still give their best to the country.

Again, why can you stand someone talking about trinity and do ’shirk’ if you can not stand an assumed insult to the Prophet Mohommad (PBUH) when it was Hazur (PBUH) who lost his temper in Ghazva e Badr when the Kuffar claimed their gods had won?

@ Muslim: please read the prophecy about Mohommadi Begum
http://www.alislam.org/library/begum.html

Prophecy of the Holy Prophet(PBUH) in favor of Mirza Gulam Ahmad
http://www.alislam.org/library/sign.html

The things you mentioned as prophecies by Mirza Gulam Ahmad are answered some here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversy_surrounding_the_death_of_Mirza_Ghulam_Ahmad

The rest you can look up if you really want to go after the truth, if not, I will refrain from answering here since it is derailing the coversation. (If there was a PM option I would have used that :S)

i would’ve felt sorry if they were christians or hindus or even jews cuz they atleast stick to what they say and believe and don’t sell their sould for money! but these bastards have no identity!
should’ve been shot rather!they are the reason we are in this state today!community based blood suckers!(khutmals!)

Please dont turn this issue in to a religious circus!

If you have gone through the details of incident you have seen that IJT seized the office of Principal and created a law and order situation, to maintain order principal expelled these students.

None here has answred my question and I repeat it again, why IJT and Jamat Islami’s terrorists are free to spread Madoodi-ism in educational institutions when its also a sect backed by jews just like Ahmadi’s?

Secondly there must be no discrimination which means that all sorts of religious preachings must be banned, and use of force be discourged.

I dont care about what belief’s you or anyone else have and wont let anyone judge me and give me a certificate of being a good or bad muslim.

We are not a theocratic state but governed under a constitution which ensures equal treatment and equal protection of law.

Most of the Muslim’s I have seen in Pakistan or around the world make me ashamed of being Muslim because of several reasonswhich most of you know well.

In such situation do’nt we have right to discriminate and violate constitutional gurantees for others because they have different belief’s?

And if its allowed then we have to accept that if Musharaf violates constitution, we deserve it!

Exactly which parts of constitution, Hadith, Qura’an allows Muslims to discriminate?

Educate us you loud mouths!

There are courts to decide who is right and who is wrong. I think we should leave these matters to people who are best suited to it.
Let us not spread hatred.

Jamiat waley Chootiaa hain, Peer Sahib (Altaf Bhi) sai kion nahee kuch seekh letay. 14 kiaa 30 bhee hotey to masala nahee hotaa.

Agley din janazey main pohanch jatey, thorey ansoo bahatey aur bass. Sanp bhee marjaata aur lathee bhee nahee toot-teee.

Abb inn jamation ko kon sikhaey?

It’s a very shameful act for Pakistan not to be able to recognise the basic fundamental rights of minorities in Pakistan. Bullying, Threatening, Beating, Persecuting, Exploiting, Expelling and Killing of Ahmadis continue in all parts of Pakistan. Education institutes are places where the highest level of Human rights needs to be observed. Why was injustice done to the 23 Ahmadi students? What was their fault? Just that they call them self Ahmadis? Closing ones eyes and suppressing injustice is not a solution.

I can further suggest to the Principal that if he wasn’t able to control the situation, he should simply have resigned from his post (finding his self unfit to do justice to safe guard the basic human rights of Human beings). Why coming under the sub due pressure of the Jamat-e-Islami extremists? Why expelling all 23 Ahmadi students and exploiting their career at large?

Dear AHMED,

My last comment has been blocked.So I ll be short and quick.

YOU LOOK TO BE WELL VERSED WHAT YOU DO.
‘ FLY HAS 50000 EYES BUT ALWAYS SIT ON RUBISH’.
Just read Quran pak with translation u r described there. sura baqra first 4 raqo

Where Allah subhan o wa talha explains defination of MOMIN, MUSHRIK AND MUNAFIK.

AS per hadith only when Hazrat Easa pbuh will be resurrected only 849 christians will be with him as they are the ones who would be following his true teachings rest are non believers or Mushriks. He will say prayer behind Imam Mahdi.

He will come to tell christians that Islam is true religion and end war between muslims and christians. NOT to teach muslims islam as u falsely said before.

but my question to u is Mr Ghulam was Imam Mehdi, then Easa ibn maryum.
SO he is GOD or son of God why did he not tell us how was born and if he was born as immaculate conception first time why he needed a sperm this time. Did God loose his trick this time…………….. or was he an immaculate conception this time aswell.

how can a man say prayer behind himself is he one or cloned.-this new technology was not there 70 yrs.

why ghulam was born again to die in toilet. no prophet would be disgraced.

Another fact muslims and christians are still fighting.

Can u give me figure how many how many qadis have been killed.

how many qadis are fighting or fought jehad in afghan,chechnia, palistine.

HOW MANY WENT TO HAJJ.
HOW MANY PAY ZAKAT 2.5%

Remeber: WHEN TRUTH FALLS ON FALSEHOOD, FALSEHOOD PERISHES.

I am a born Ahmadi , and as Pirs brain wash their mureeds , and take advantage of low self esteem and knowledge of their followers similarly we Ahmadies were exposed to a completely close knitted fascist system known as Nizam e Jamaat e Ahmadiyya.

There are generations after generations of Mirzas on the top and then there are thousands of life time paid Murrabies ( missionaries ) and then there are office bearers who like to get publicity and crumbs etc.

They collect billions of dollars every year in the name of chanda or donations and most of it is embezelled by top leadership in the name of interest free loans and gifts etc.

Ahmadiyya leadership always force ordinary Ahmadies to keep things stirred up and we Ahmadies keep on provoking other Main stream Muslims needlessly.

We do this in order to get cases registered against us by the administration and with Pakistani government , so that we can get sympathies of Western countries and we get political asylum in the Western countries.

When Australian government made an agreement with our Khalifa sahib then Ahmadies wrote their names along with their father names and went to the offices of Khatme nubuwat and threw written challenge or mubahila to them.

Office bearers of Khatme nubuwat also wanted business, hence they hurried and went to nearby police station and registered cases against Ahmadies under Zia’s ordinance.

After achieving that target , Ahmadies fled to Rabwah, from where they got their visas and tickets for Australia and those jobless Ahmadies and their families are now well settled there.

Mullahs of Khatme Nubuwat also collect chanda in the name of this religious business , and it is reported that one Sunni Mullah Allah Yar Arshad of Rabwah collects approx 20,000 rupees bribe from each Ahmadi to register a case against him in the local police station.

Due to this business Ahmadies have now become richest citizens of Pakistan and they are taking advantage of Pakistan along with rich Western countries.

Rabwah is now bursting with Euros and dollars and it boasts Pakistan’s biggest mega homes and palaces.

Rabwah has world most modern libraries, swiming pools , rest houses , fully loaded mercedez cars for Mirzas and their clergy , and tons of resources and rest houses all over the world.

Our Jamaat fund organizations like Human rights commission, and media people and our jamaat people are on internet forums with different nicks and some of them are acting like fifth columnists and are trying to invite NATO forces in Pakistan.

Case of PMC student expulsion and its publicity all over the world is telling us that it was all pre planned by our Jamaat Ahmadiyya and they have some dirty plans for Pakistan.

Jamaat Islami should also stop harrassing ordinary muslims and they are no contractors or thekay dars of Islam or Pakistan.

Jamaat Islami and the administration fell in Ahmadiyya trap as usual,and brought bad name for otherwise tolerant Pakistani society.

If we really want to solve issue of Jamaat Ahmadiyya then their activities in Rabwah and London have to be monitored, and we have to observe how much money is going in and out of Rabwah.

Government has to do audit of this charity , and government has to make their activities public.

We also have to observe that how much bribe they pay to the local police officials and how they treat and torture ordinary dissenting Ahmadies.

Government within government , which our Jamaat Ahmadiyya run through offices of Rabwah need to be checked.

Governmnet officers should stop taking bribe from our jamaat and they should fulfill their constitutional duties faithfully.

For more details, please visit

http://www.ahmedi.org

job well done…..finally some good news!

It’s truly amazing how the extremist mullah’s in the name of protecting Islam continue to do things that present Islam in such a distorted manner, that Islam becomes the laughing stock of all religions to the rest of the world. I wonder, have any Christians, Hindu’s, or students of any other religion been expelled from this university because of their religious beliefs? I have never heard of such a thing! The Pakistani intellecuals are leaving Pakistan due to limited opportunity as it is and instead of trying to conserve and retain these intellecutals and professionals, we keep pushing them out and breeding more and more ignorance. This is painfully evident reading some posts on this blog. This is the reason why in the history of the Nobel Prize, only a handful of muslims have ever won this honor. And one person, Dr. Abdus Salam was an Ahmadi. That means that from among over 1 Billion people, maybe only 2 or 3 individuals from among the Muslim Ummah has ever won this prize. And those who have done so, received their education from western educational institutions. Ask yourself this question… How many Muslims in the last 200 years have been named to be in the forefront of science, technology or innovation? Almost none!!!
When will the Muslims wake up? Until and unless the Muslims as a whole will not respect and protect the rights and beliefs of minorities (both muslim and non-muslim alike), Allah will continue to punish us at the hands of other nations. And we as Muslim Ummah will continue to be the laughingstock of the entire world with our twisted and contradictory understanding of justice and fairness.

ASAK!

I congratulate AN Ahmedi, being honest. Reason I asked those question was that I knew Qadiani’s very well as how they work.

My question to AN Ahmedi knowing all this qadi’s hipocracy why are u still with them why donot revert back to Islam. I know many born Qadi’s with conscius has done it and they are still rich.

I request to all readers and QADIS that donot look at muslims and their gains and their losses. Read and follow Islam u have QURAN SHARIF( WORD OF ALLAH) and HAZRAT Mohammed’s (pbuh) SUNNAH.

We are not what we should be.On the day of Judgment if u believe it me/u and ALLAH.Allah will ask u what u have done and have u followed what I told u to do. YOU cannot say because that sunni mulla said that my father told me that or it was logical at the time.

And you will say NO and he will give u your result in ur left hand -hell.

FOR MY DEAR AHMEDI
U are defying Mohammed (pbuh) AS last prophet.- against QURAN

U have different prayer( i wont call it salat) - AGAINST QURAN & SUNNAH.

NO ZAKAT- WHICH IS 2.5 % of annual savings on Sahib nisab ( OWNER OF 7.5 tolla Gold or equvivalnt) u give chanda/tax-juga tax on top of goverenment taxes. ZULM. AGAINST Quran.

Donot perform Hajj, jehad etc. against QURAN

HOW COME U CALL UR SELF MUSLIM AND U KNOW IT U r not.

Do not write to me that how many “so called muslims “are doing it. Answer I have given already and result of it is very obvious all across world.

NOW I ANSWER TO TAYYAB.

Dear sir
I LIVE IN WEST and we see day to day probably u dont.

There is no extremist muslim,NO poor muslim, NO mullah muslim but only MUSLIM IS WORD.

Thats we should be and let others call what they want.We are responsible for our deeds only.

Tell me if ur brother kills someone will take his blame and will want to be called a killer and would u like to be hanged till death.

If u do u are emotionally unstable. And this still wont change that ur brother is a killer and should be punished.

And if are hanged than u commit suicide - haram.

BY this example again i tried that we all are responsible for our deeds.

As regards to Nobel prize I donot consider it as fair prize. e.g. AN ex primeminiser of israel was given NOBLE PRIZE FOR PEACE BECAUSE as he killed app 18000 muslims. Before becoming prime minister.

Secondly , Abduslasm though pakistani but Qadiani.
Thirdly, 70% of doctors in western world are muslims. and similar figures in other fields as science, research, engineering.

U r right that we should work towards education and awareness of it.
One reason why we suffered in education is that we relied more on western education. generation before us only wanted to get educated because they can have better job.

None of them wanted to establish a better system. West want to keep us in worry of roti kapra. this is all across muslim world.

NOW Rights of Minorities- right is to protect them and let them practice them their religions according to their faiths BUT not to PROPAGATE them as missionieries and distract people. now u know example of FATHE MAKKAH.

WAS OUR Beloved Prophet Mohammed was wrong when he broke ALL IDOLS in KABBA. WAS he not breaching human rights.Of other MUSHRIKS AND religions. NO HE WAS NOT.

HE ordered that Makkhans are not be harmed specially children,elderly and women and who will ask for Panah only who will attack u or resist u.

REMEBER: “ALLAH WILL GIVE HADIATH (GUIDANCE) TO ONE WHOM HE WANTS AND FOR OTHERS WORLDLY LIFE WILL BE MADE MORE ATTRACTIVE” - AL QURAN

HADIATH FOR ONE WHO SEEKS FOR IT.

‘YOU TAKE ONE STEP TOWARDS ME I LL TAKE TEN STEPS MY MEN , IF HE WALKS TOWARDS ME I’LL COME RUNNING TOWARDS HIM.’AL QURAN.

MAY ALL GUIDE US ALL.

MAY ALLAH GIUDE US ALL TO RIGHT PATH.

THEIR IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH, MOHAMMED IS MESSENGER OF ALLAH.

This is horrendous so is the face of mullas, Pakistan was created for humans to live not for mullas as they are exactly reverse of every single human trait one can think of. You cannot think of any good coming out of that bunch. They are dragging Pakistan close to the edge of destruction. I hope that people having rational thoughts will muster up against this utter injustice

Tayyib, I see where you are coming from and completely understand your frustration, but please don’t fall for the symbols of prestige like Nobel that the west has created. Yes Mandela got it, but so did Begin, when it comes to Muslim world they truly do choose to give to the one that in some way undermines the ruling systems, not to say that I have any thing great to say about the ruling systems in Muslim countries but I am just commenting that the west always always and ALWAYS has it’s wrested interest and it will never honour any body that some how is not symbolic in a negative way in Muslim world. Edward Said (not a Muslim but Arab) was a brilliant man, his life and death were ignored by the western establishment, had he different political positions on world affairs, I am sure all the world’s awards and praise would have been showered on him. On the contrary Shirin Ebadi is an intellectual light weight (not to take away any thing from her struggle) but she will get the Nobel and the world stage!! So Abdul Salam might be a brilliant man, I don’t know if he was the most brilliant Pakistani, but him being an Ahmadi must have played a key role in him being awarded Nobel. You see David Lean needed a Muslim like character for Lawrence of Arabia, he knew that this was launch of a career, who did he find, a Coptic Christian in Egypt where 90% people are Muslims, and named him Omar Sharif. Coincidence…may be! So here is my take on the situation, I believe we must resist and fight bigotry, extremism and stupidity INDEPENDENT of what west dictates. We must remind the IDIOTS that their actions are not only unethical, criminal and against all norms of fundamental principals of justice and fairness but they also play in the hands of “enemies” who constantly point finger at us in order to justify installing these corrupt Sheikhs, Amirs and Generals, invading and occupying our lands and killing our nationals. There must be a grass root home grown resistance against these low lives otherwise they will always get away with it because they knowingly or unknowingly are doing the dirty work of the global capitalist in our countries.

The Congregation (Al-Jumu?ah)
Bismillahi Rahmani Rahim
Wa akharina minhum lamma yalhaqu bihim wa huwal azizul hakim

This is the similar treatment that Allah’s beloved ones have experienced. And now as per sayings of Holy Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) Ahmadies are experiencing. God Almighty never left them alone and will never leave Ahmadies alone.

I think we should not bring the things in different scenario, it is very simple that to abondon the right of study from any human is wrong and who have already invested their 12, 13, 14 n 15 years in a field.

I think there could not be any injustice bigger than this. I wish if our beloved judiciary wont do such act then they would not be doing long march rather they would be passing life with dignity.

@ Karim,
Sir, I understand what you are saying, and I completely agree that there is an obvious conspiracy against the Muslim world indeed by the western nations. But I find that not to be the case when it comes to the field of science, technology and knowledge in general. I’m sure some people have gotton the nobel peace prize who really didn’t deserve it (as in the example that Mr. Raja has stated). but i’m talking about the Nobel prize in the advancement of human knowledge. Hardly any muslims in the recent history of the last 200 years has contributed to it. Fine, throw out the Nobel Prize (there’s more than one kind). I want someone to show me what a Muslim has invented, discovered, or gained insight on in the recent past that has benefitted the Muslim world or mankind in general. I cannot think of a single invention made by a Muslim that is even being used even in the Muslim world. Instead we extend our beggars hand in front of the western powers to allow us to buy their obselete weaponery at full price with interest. It is obvious that we as Muslims have lost our way. Just think about the fact that it was Saudi Arabia who invited to US to launch attacks on Iraq from the Arabian soil. We as Muslims are killing other Muslims. And anybody who is going to tell me that there is no extreme Muslim or shia muslim etc, and we are all just muslim needs to wake up. We have no central leadership, we have no sense of unity, we have no diplomacy even between our own muslim nations. And we are just Muslim? Thats a joke!!!
What has happened to those 23 students, (even if they are guilty of preaching) is a disgrace. We need to keep the greater good of humanity in mind. Those students were training to become doctors and save Human LIVES. Muslim were created to serve mankind, regardless of race, religion or otherwise. When Hazrat Mohammad (SAW) was attacked at Taif, the angle came and asked him if he wants everyone in that city destroyed. Huzoor very emphatically said, NO!!! that their children will one day become Muslim. This was the example shown to us by our beloved Prophet. But I don’t see many muslims follow this example. Instead, I see the most horrific events take place in the Muslim world. The expelling of these students is just another example of the double standard that we have created in our lands and then we wonder why we cannot receive justice from the rest of the world. Until and unless, the minorities in the Muslim countries are treated with justice when it comes to our own affairs, we can neither demand justice from the world, nor should we expect it. Whatever system of double standards we have within our own countries even among the Muslims, we can expect to get the same double standard when it comes to the west.

Dear All Muslims and Non Muslims who participate in this forum and write their comments, some post good comments and some in against every one has right to express its views. Yes Ahmadees are declared as Non Muslim by Pakistan Govt but Pakistan is a Muslim Country and try to practice Muslim Laws, and I am sure in Islam there is no such teaching to stop some one to learn. May Allah bless all of us.

FOR MAHMOOD!

WILL U PLZ QUOTE ME REFERENCE OF ARABIC VERSE - QURAN AND HADITH.

FOR MR TAYYAB!

I totally agree with u not in all respects we are on same wavelength but my point is when we start commenting on such issues or trying to decide we should follow basic principle of Islam.i.e.

La illa ha ill lal la ho Mohammed ur rasool allah

1. ALLAH COMES FIRST
2. MAN / HUMAN BEING COMES NEXT.
3. Amongst man Hazrat Mohammed (pbuh) is above all.
4.For an issue first Guidance from Quran and then from SUnnah and Hadith for all muslims.

READ THIS WITH TRANSLATION:

SURAH BAQRA VERSES:1-29 SPECIALLY 25,26,27.IF U CAN KEEP READING UPTO 108

SURAH IMBIA VERSE 1-10
SURAH YASIN VERSE 1-12

Well I leave it to Allah to giude us who comes first.

@RAJA,

Well Said.

May Allah give you honor in this life and hereafter, Ameen.

Dear Raja ,

I am a Muslim and I am a very independent person.

I don’t want any Sunni Mullah or Ahmadi Mullah to tell me what Islam is.

I am an Ahmadi by birth like you are Rajput by birth and I cannot change that reality.

Ahmadi Mullahs and Non Ahmadi mullahs love dogmatic discussions and useless details of theology etc.

Their bread and butter depend on such controversies and Allama Iqbal also mentioned that Non Ahmadi Mullahs don’t want to finish Ahmadiyyat as it is a permanent source for their bread and butter.

Muslim world need practical actions rather than talks in mosques like Tablighi people do or boastful claims and propaganda which Ahmadiyya jamaat do on their Muslim Television Ahmadiyya.

European countries are based on Greco Roman Culture , which is based on pork, wine, dog and opportunities of mixing of opposite sex which leeds to free sex.

Where as Muslim Culture is based on Kalima Shahada, circumcision, halal meat, no wine, no dog, ” Haya ” , ” Parda ” and strong marriage institution etc.

European countries have become one in the form of EU and they are one with USA and NATO is a united force to protect their Greco Roman culture , where as Muslims are fighting for ” Chapatis ” and crumbs of bread .

I tell you that you cannot win from extremely cunning and ultra rich and resourceful Ahmadi Mullahs , thats why I hinted in my above post to do legal audit of their activities and one can show their luxurious life style in Rabwah and Pakistan and one can show their wealth and those mega homes to Western countries.

Ordinary Ahmadies are just brain washed slaves , but Ahmadiyya leadership is extremely cunning and they are no different than other feudal Pirs and parasite families of Pakistani society.

When rule of law and awareness will come to Pakistan , then people will be able to understand extreme wealth and deception of these parasite families of Pakistan.

These Ahmadi students will be reinstated and this noora Khusti and drama will be finished soon.

When we were in a University then we noticed that Jamaat Islami wanted to own every thing, Tablighi people wanted to brain wash us with their Talk Talk and just Talk, Ahmadies were showing off their power and cleverness, secular Parties wanted to have Mujras and dances there ,….so all of them are cheap talkers and sloganeers ,..

Students were gathering assault rifles and grenades in Campuses and instead of gathering intelligence and preventing clashes ,professors were busy enjoying their bungalows, fat salaries and mutton roasts ,..

They woke up when four students were slaughtered one day…

Why Could’t empty sloganeers and empty drums of Jamaat Islami excel is applied Technology and why they miserably failed in the creation of any Islamic welfare State.

Despite billions of Chanda consumption by Jamaat Ahmadiyya , we don’t see any Ahmadiyya Islamic welfare State either..

Cheap selfish people who don’t know what rule of law is

Uphold Medical Education for All in Pakistan, Despite Cries from Clerics

I am writing to protest the expulsion last week of 23 medical students from Pakistan’s Punjab Medical College, Faisalabad, only because they belonged to a minority religious group the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community. In a letter issued from the College Principal naming the 15 girls and 8 boys, a vague reason cited for expulsion was ‘religious dispute’ and distribution of ‘hate material.’ Nothing could be farther from the facts. Firstly, Ahmadi Muslims in Pakistan and worldwide are outstanding, peaceful, law-abiding citizens, who adhere to their motto “Love for All, Hatred for None.” Secondly, religious outcry and hate propaganda were in point of fact waged against the Ahmadi students by a mob of extremist clerics called the ‘Islami Jamiat e Talaba.’ Ironically, in executing the expulsion, the Principal and Government-run medical college complied with demands from the clerics. I remind the honorable Principal that his college is a steward of the future of Pakistani medicine. This duty requires that he should rise above the cackle of the cleric and prevent religious bigotry from overrunning decisions made by the College. By denying innocent medical students the right to completing their education, solely based on their religious affiliation, Pakistan will continue to fall not only in the eyes of the global medical and scientific community but more importantly in the estimation of God. Thus for the sake of God, country, and the universal codes of medical practice that the college claims to uphold, I humbly request that Punjab Medical College rescind its decision to expel the Ahmadi students.

Sohail Husain is Assistant Professor of Pediatrics at Yale University School of Medicine, New Haven, Connecticut, USA

Dear An Ahmedi,

I am delighted that you have reverted and a true muslim.

Every human is born on DEEN E FITRAT i.e. Islam but bed and family he is born on and with majorly decides his path till he becomes capable of living his life alone ie puberty and fardiath of salat and soom.

Donot be ashamed you were born muslim but misled and ALLAH GIVES GUIDANCE TO ONLY THOSE WHO SEEK. PLZ SEE MY PREVIOUS COMMENTS.

FOR many others to tell, I am related to Sir zafar ullah
as inlaw of my grand father left them then when world use to call them muslims.

My Best friend is QADI I used to protect him and his fellow
when attacked or threatened by jammat physically. He EVEN tried to convert me. BUT all this time I kept my faith not fooled by appearance,talk, money and status.

I may sound like an intolerent Muslim to some.BUT you can see whom I WORKED AND spent my life with.

Reason I am on this to tell people what our priorty is.

DEAR Sohail,

PLZ donot let ur self be fooled as living in west is good enough for brainwashing.

TO tell u I am SURGEON may be BETTER placed than u in west.
And I know what TALIM IS and its value but WE HAVE TO SEE
who is harmming us.

YOU believe it or not IT IS JEHAD. best of it is its Jehad bl NAFAS to i.e. jehad with our own self.

Hazrat Mohammed(PBUH) SAID
….Fitna of our UMMAH is MAAL…. - Sahi BOKHARI Hadith cHAP OF FITNA.

ON the day of Qiamat YOU WILL BE RISEN AMONST THOSE YOU DIE WITH,( BOTH PHYSICALLY AND METMORAPHICALLY ).

May I ASK you why not your heart cries same way for PALESTINIANS (KILLED), IraqiS (slaughetred), Checanies ( raped and burnt alive), Afghanees, Kasmiris etc same way as these 23 on expulsion.

plz decide your Kiblah is it manhattan-rabawa or MAKKHA-Kabba.
plz read sura yaseen with urdu translation.

This is highly disgraceful incident. Ahmadis are do not hurt anyone becouse they believe in LOVE FOR ALL HATRED FOR NONE. Then why they are being subjected to such a violent action.

ALLAH HU AKBAR … !!

Comment by Aamir pakistani on June 8, 2008 @ 11:53 pm

My dear Mr.Aamir,

How did you say all of that ??

Just don’t throw a stone in the dark … Hamara Kalma wohi hai jo hur Musalman ka hai …..

Humara Qura’an wohi hai jo hur Musalaman ka hai ..

Hamara Eemaan wohi hai jo hur Muslim ka hai ..

Hamara aitqa’ad wohi hai jo hur Muslim ka hai ..

Mery dost, we’ve some conflict just in two or three points … Beside of these, we’ve everty thing similar to yours all …

La Ilaha Illalhu Muhammad Ur Rasol ULLAH

Comment by Zaheer on June 11, 2008 @ 5:25 pm

Mr.Zaheer, please don’t blame to just the ones, As you all known of it, we have no support of Government as well as the Nation of Pakistan, might be, It’s showing to everyone that Ahmadis are the guilty … !! Please probe into this matter and come up with the Actual report, that would prove whose behind the curtain …..

If you would find Ahmadis are guilty, so that’s okay, grab them into court and start trail on all of them. If report proves they’re not guilty, think about whatever is being discussing against of us …

But, prove the real story line, first .. !! Then, you can all say anything about us ..

Comment by RAJA on June 11, 2008 @ 3:47 pm

Mer