Musharraf - hits out at Journalist for tough Questions
President of Pakistan General (Retd) Pervaiz Musharaf while addressing a gathering of 800 or so Pakistanis in Hilton Hotel, Park Lane in London on 25th of January, incited violence by asking the Pakistani community to hit such people (in Urdu ‘or mayray khayal mein us ko dou teen tikka b dain tou acha hai”). He was referring to the senior Pakistani journalist M. Ziauddin, who asked him a grilling question at RUSI where Musharaf gave talk earlier in the day.
The so-called problematic question was about Rashid Rauf’s disappearance. If people may recall that barely a month back the Police came crying home saying that Rashid Rauf had slipped through their fingers while he was allowed to munch down a Big Mac, read more on the issue on the post made on Dec 24th ISI agents orchestrate a ‘staged escape’ of Rashid Rauf
Musharraf felt that such grueling questions degraded the image of Pakistan and the journalist should have known better. Here attached is an audio clip of the talk, one must notice that the President seems to act more like a stand up comedian then actually a respectable President of Pakistan.
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Original Link BBCUrdu
Credit to d0ct0r from the comment he posted on the Qazi Faez Isa post
While in another comment d0ct0r again shares with us the official rebuttal by Rashid Qureshi, who quite literally fails miserably in defending Musharraf’s statement and utter frustration hangs up the phone in midst conversation with the BBC correspondent
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Original Link BBCUrdu
It seems to be yet another PR disaster to add to the ongoing miseries for Musharraf and his team of cronies
Comments
It is simply a language of mafia’s don who want to control the affairs as per his desires.He is living in fool’s world with the characters like sher afghan, chaudaries,durain,dumb generals like hamid nawaz, rashid quershis and many many more stupid and low profile characters who can only get power and monkey wisdom in military regime.He is not use to of logical questioning and reasoning and want to handle bloody civilians like robot soldiers.His behaviour shouldnt be a a shock or embarrassement for his nation who is now considered to be most illeterate nuclear power in the world.His nation is now shock absorber and know very well that if he can fire respectable judiciary in 5
minutes then he can do all low profile acts for saving his soul.So this is just a intoxication of power supplied by US support system,sooner it will be gone and he will feel only like used cartridge.
Who were the crumb-eaters? I hope mushi hadnt brought these from Pak on taxpayers money …we’re already in midst of a financial breakdown and this isnt helping!
And even though I agree that we should not wash our dirty laundry in public, the nation is beyond frustrations and the only avenue they see is through such international forums. Is it any surprise that the only avenue left for a journalist to ask such questions are international events, as this question in a local environment would have landed him likely behind bars (or whatever PERMA rule related to ‘thou shall not insult army, thou shall lick the boots of a dictator etc etc)
Ali - I too uphold the image of my country very dear BUT sadly in the past few months I feel its time to stop pushing our problems under the carpet for the lame excuse of ‘image of Pakistan’ we are living in a web of lies and when the tough questions start being asked - TV Channels go off air and people start to get arrested or disappeared
Try asking these tough questions in Pakistan ;) and … who knows what may happen. The only way to corner this raving lunatic is to disgrace him publicly where it really hurts. For Musharraf its the Western bosses which he continues to appease at our expense. Walking in the streets of London he hails himself as the angelic ruler who hopes to hold free and fair elections. Which we all know is just a lie, he refuses to accept that he has destroyed the constitution and the fact that we have a gutless judiciary - let alone being illegal
I wonder when this idiot will realize that he is the crux of all problems… I think he is, some might disagree…
I agree with Teeth Maestro. Why this false pride when common people are being ridiculed by this dusgusting, illetrate man… when we are getting aid from so many countries about which we may not feel obliged since it is going in a few pockets…
As a Nation, where lies our respect, in honouring an idiot or in facing the true facts of life… have people forgotton that this same man called Pakistanis corrupt in Washington and on several occassions through out the world … where was the pride of the nation then… but you see he did not need us then… he had the world media with him… now he needs us and thus wants to keep everything within Pakistanis and is concerned about the Pakistani pride…
Dont be fooled. He is not concerned about the Pakistani pride… he is only concerned about his personal pride…
It is his fault entirely if he could not understand the question of Mr Ziauddin who has served the nation well, who is a senior responsible journalist and worthy of our respect as compared to this lunatic… the lunatic has again shown that he is incapable of understanding any intelligent observation…. and when an uneducated man cannot answer a question, he will side track it…. he will complain that he has been embarrassed as if the entire world owns him an allegiance…
Shame on him and shame on the audience who humoured him… but let me also tell you, for the ex-pats… it is not that they are with him… believe me… they were just there for the fun…they were curious… if he asks their help in any way, trust me, they will jeer at him…
And lastly, Mr Ziauddin walks the street of London without any fear, he has no body guards… if Musharraf the jerk walks a street anywhere in the world, he will not last till the evening… he is talking about beating up Mr Ziauddin… well this man himself will be beaten to death…
The good thing about this blog is that from the day first i started reading it, the stance is the same…there is no hypocrisy..no deals.. Restoration of judiciary,consitution and democracy are three points that Doctor has stuck too… Hats off!!!…
I dont feel pressing the freedom of speech is the right way..what is wrong should be publicized.. we should not give it a diplomatic solution… which we are doing from last 60 years and are always on the losing side..and many of my friends residing outside pak read this blog, and its a great source of information to them…which has made them to change their support to Musharaf.. Doctor its your duty to bring the news without any filters… and you are doing a great Job!!!
“I wonder when this idiot will realize that he is the crux of all problems… I think he is, some might disagree…”
“Try asking these tough questions in Pakistan and … who knows what may happen.”
Doctor you are not asking, you are telling.. so be careful [;)] …. brutal cyber crime law is implemented under the table.. We really need brave persons like you in Pakistan!!… keep it up!!!
This nation needs awareness, and there is no doubt you trying your level best… we all appreciate your efforts!!
Actually I am with the President on this one. Pakistani journalists are a strange bunch. Most have political paymasters for whom they plant stories in their newspapers etc. Mr. Ziauddin’s question must have been asked in a rather shrewd and accusational manner which prompted Musharraf to put Ziauddin in his place. I think our society could really do away with our lawyers and journalists who are the biggest ‘aasteen ka saamp’.
One simple thing;
If its an elected government, Rashid Rauf escapes, the blame will go on government to be incompetent.
If Pakistan Army and Agencies are ruling us for last 60 years and we are in such state of affairs then who should we blame?
Americans, Pakistani public, political parties or those who creticise?
That is the wisdom behind fact that Army should stay away from government!
If things go wrong even then they should enjoy national support for defending the borders.
If you dont want to be criticise then stop ruling and go to your duty, if you keep on ruling us, then people will critacise each and every act of you, no one is ready to accept you as a holly cow!
And fact is that you have completely destroyed this beautiful country in last 60 years, please Pakistan Army, pitty us, pitty Quaid and 160 million people of Pakistan, go back to your job and take your “GEMS” in uniform to borders from Presidentail Palace!
although in my personal view from the onset i wasn’t supportive of pakistan taking part in America’s sham war on terror but once you decided to fight the war then you’ve to be serious,whole world is watching you and either you think that international community is dumb and stupid that you’re trying to sell them a story that Rashid Rauf wanted by UK ran away while two cops were taking him back to jail in a taxi.. just days after UK had publicaly demanded that he should be handed over to them..
and Mr Zaiuddin was at liberty to ask any type of question,dictator is not the one who’ll decide which journalist should ask what question.. this is not PTV’s question hour.. its an international news conferences..and Mr Zaiddin being the UK correspondent was justified in asking this question as Mush was to meet Gordan Brown the British PM today…
At this point of time Mush doesn’t know what he is saying & why he is saying that.He just keeps saying it.
“Take all your overgrown infants away somewhere
And build them a home
A little place of their own
The Fletcher Memorial
Home for incurable tyrants and kings
And they can appear to themselves every day
On closed circuit TV
To make sure they’re still real
It’s the only connection they feel
.
.
.
Did they expect us to treat them with any respect !
They can polish their medals
And sharpen their smiles,
And amuse themselves playing games for a while
Boom Boom, Bang Bang,
Lie down you’re dead
Safe in the permanent gaze of a cold glass eye
With their favourite toys
They’ll be good girls and boys
In the Fletcher Memorial
Home for colonial wasters of life and limb
.
.
.”
- Fletcher Memorial
Pink Floyd
mush does not have any ground to stand on abusing the journalists when he himself is touring Europe telling people that Pakistanis are not worth democracy and european obsession to democracy does not apply to Pakistan :p
Yesterday Musharaf had a meeting with Altaf Bhai!
He got dinner with Shaukat Azaiz!
Everyone who wants to destroy this counrty, you will find him in GENERALS laps and everyone who wants to save this country will be assasinated by Pakistan Army and ISI, is it for what we pay them? Our 60-70% budget goes to feed these paracites but they work against our national intrests.
We are on a turning point where it would be decided weather GENERALS will survive or Pakistan and 160 million Pakistani’s.
Either defeat is for Pakistan or Pakistan Army(Private Limited), we did not hire them to run Seed Corporation, Petrolum Companies, Universities, Chemical and Cement Factories and Commercial Banks or even Car and Housing authorities.
We need an army which protects borders not to run the Mafia’s like Sugar Scandal, Ata Sacandal, Stock Market Manipulation and Kick Backs in defence deals.
Every retard General I have seen thinks same as Musharaf “Bloody Civilan” !!!!!!!!
A guy in interior on road pulling a donkey cart pays tax on everything and whole his life is unable to a pair of shoes, while every army officer is provided with a man to polish his shoes.
Stop this non sense, bring them under accountability and their budgets under audit, strip them from uniforms when they start to behave like rulers and make them perform their jobs.
Khalid Bin Walid became a symbol of victory and was removed, it was feared that he will become something like “Saviour”, otherwise there was nothing to remove him, same thing has happened to us, all of our coward and traitor GENERALS has became “Saviours” and being worshiped.
Its time to think weather we want to keep Pakistan intact or our great saviours in uniforms, there is no doubt that after dividing us in 1971 or PAK Faug will push us to hell and Generals …………they have already their families settled overseas and their accounts with big kick backs in Switzerland.
People’s rule…..Long Live Pakistan and Pakistani’s and down with Pakistan Army!
This is what is left from him now he is trying to hide his sins that he has committied in his 8yrs not realising that he is the problem and not the soultion i urge the public to stand united against this barbric dictator.
Pakistan army is the best army in the world we can not assiociate Individual acts with all the army you get bad eggs in all departments.
Pakistan army Zindabad pakistan Zindabad without mushraff.
Teeth Maestro purposely hides the whole truth. Ziauddin did try to associate the Rauf’s escape, with the safety issues of Pakistani nukes. He IS serving the purpose to echoing the propaganda of “unsafe pakistani nukes” and such people should be dealt with iron hands.
Hats of to Teeth Maestro for propagating half truths, and worse even, lies! But sir, your visitors are not totally blind, deaf, and dumb.
@Ghazanfar
Can you please explain following to let us know what is best in Pakistan Army? Dont you think making any institution a holly cow and giving it free hand to expliot everything will ruin the institution itself?
Do you agree that Pakistan Army is involved in killing of our leaders, exporting innocent individuals to Guantamo Bay?
Do you agree that Pakistan Army is ruling us for last sixty years directly or indirectly and braking political parties, establishing sectrian groups and financing ethnic violance (look in to General Asad Duranni’s book)?
Do you agree that that its Pakistan Army who got the medal of biggest surrender (70,000 men) after world war?
Do you agree that Pakistan Army is biggest corporate in country running land grabbing mafia, sugur mills, banks, cement companies, housing development and car leasing?
Do you agree that in a country where people literly live under Railway bridges, how much land is allocated for Pakistan Army’s officers to play GOLF?
Do you agre that Army Officers are bully’s on roads and in society, they rape (Like Dr Shazia) and are never caught, the loot and are never accountable and they get 70% of our resources but never audited?
Do you agree that if Army as an instution do not support dictators like Ayub, Zia and Muaharaf then Fatima Jinnah would not have humilated, ZA Bhutto would not have been hanged and BB not assainated?
DO YOU THINK THESES ARE INDIVIDUAL ACT OF A PERSON OR AN INSTITUTION?
Please open your eyes, its not the best rather we have replaced the “defence institution” in to a colonial force.
As long as we keep our eyes close and keep telling them that they are the best, we will get these saviours to rule us!
@Unaiza: You’re missing the point. You see those who protect the nukes don’t, as they say in Urdu, “descend from heavens”. They are the same people and the same *very intelligent* intel agencies and military who let Rashid Rauf escape.
I agree, most readers of this blog can understand this and that is why there is an outcry at the bully-in-the-class reaction of General sahib.
By the way, M Ziauddin has more reputation in his profession than Musharraf does. The only difference is that he doesn’t have an army to defend him.
Unaiza bb listen to this story and then decide if you can digest it or not..
” last week pakistani agencies captured world’s most wanted, Osama bin laden, he was handed over to a lone policeman, who was entrusted with the duty of escorting mr obl to high security prison in a rickshaw.. on the way they stopped for a tea break, while the cop was slurping his steaming hot tea OBL managed to escape.. “
Any army in world is trianed to kill and supress, its a universal truth that they are “hired killers” under desguise of a uniform.
We give such “killers” unlimted powers they will become “Hitlers”, thats why in civilised world these killing machines are controlled by civilian governments and kept away from civilians.
Unfortunately, we have lost control of them and since last 60 years they are killing us and our institutions, they are supressing every voice which stands for freedom and are playing in hands of international powers.
Every step ahead is a recap of “Hitler Rule” and whoever talks will get “do teen rakh do” (give him two three slaps), but its 2008………Pakistani’s are generally very concious about self respect and no one is going to allow our uniformed cowards to start in civil war, the cowards are supposed to be caged and brought under accountability.
If retard general thinks that someone will realy slap those who voice for freedom then he is too delusioned, he dont know that his followers are more coward then him and his gang, Yazid, Hitler, Masolini, Ayub, Zia….all are things of past and he will join them soon.
Please note that even dons of mafias have some character. He is a maniac and totally deprived of ethics and morality.
Did you notice how some fools were shouting slogans and cheering the idiot up. How senseless we have become. A thief that Musharraf is, he is ocuupying the presidency in Pakistan illegally. He should be ashamed of it. But shame is a word not found in his dictionary.
May Allah SWT Has mercy on us and Pakistan and make Pakistanis rid of this rascle.
[...] into Europe, actually transpired into an interesting debate online, specially the incident where a Pakistani reporter asked the President a few tough questions in the UK, in response we were treated to a stand-up comedian Mush’ism comment ‘or [...]
I believe Musharraf did right. At one side we curse Musahrraf to defame Pakistan in world while our own so called journalist busy to defame state by asking such question outside of Pakistan. I pretty much liked Musharraf’s answer. Asking question by a PAKISTANI that nukes are NOT safe in hands of musharraf is pretty retardish and if I was at Mush’s place, I would really have slapped that moron.
Our tussle with Musharraf is internal matter but start fighting in other countries is just like Ghar ka masla sarak par solve karna.
so don’t get blind in hate of Musharraf.
Before someone come to me and label me a pro-Musharraf, allow me to say that I am NOT(though majority know it well). I just condemn that journalist who asked question about nukes.
Some people make just silly points. It does not make a difference whether a question is asked inside or outside Pakistan. It was a legitimate question. How could an allegedly ‘dangerous’ terrorist escape. It was hoax raised to terrorise people.. both the British and Pakistani governments were involved in deceiving people. First, a big scare, then charges were dropped, and then the guy allowed to escape. Musharraf is NOT a legal or elected President. He is a retired General. Please stop confusing Pakistan with unelected dictators who work for the CIA.
OK THE ANSWER WAS SILLY AND STUPID AND LIKE A TEENAGER
BUT DID ANY BODY HERE THE COMPLETE QUESTION LIVE ON TV IF U HAD U WOULD BE AS ANGRY AS HE WAS.
WHEN EVEN THE OPPOSITION IS SAYING THAT OVER NUKES R SAFE HOW CAN U IN FRONT OF THE INTERNATIONAL MEDIA HUMILATE NOT THE PRESIDENT BUT OUR DEFENCE CAPABILITY by relating the escape of who ever either by mistake or by some gov hands behind it with our nuclear defence .
come on mr journalist if u want our nukes to be destroyed say so dont hanki pnaki.
i am amazed to see that the people forget the mistakes of who they love and make mountain of nothing of those who hate i am not saying this ,Quran says this
BECOME A MUSLIM FIRST
THAN BECOME A PAKISTANI
THAN BECOME A PERSON WHO HATES MUSH LIKE ME.
Laila,I wonder how that question doesn’t make a difference? if someone in your family say bad about you or some of your mohalla or stranger pass bad remarks about you then who would be considered more reliable? do ponder once!
I just found out content of the question:
Ziauddin from Dawn newspaper, Pakistan. You talk very highly of our law and order agency’s skills in the case of Benazir’s I mean it’s for the foreign… (inaudible) …and then you have talked very high(ly) of our custodial control of our nuclear assets but when high profile suspected terrorists like Rashid Rauf give us a slip and escape, then (then) the people here as well as in Pakistan start suspecting of a skills in these matters. Your comments on that please
the so called journalist was actually saying that “Pakistani nukes are not in safe hands”, so what do you expect? should we all start singing anthem that our nukes are not in safe hands thus come and invade us and save our asses? Pls make some sense and try to realize that worth of Pakistan is more than any Musharraf,politician or a lawyer. Being anti-Musharraf doesn’t mean every statement is sacred. For me pakistan is above all of them so if I hate Mush then it doesn’t mean I support a similar moron. I don’t believe in politics of revenge. Thanks
why did the dangerous’ terrorist escape== a good question
relating it with our nuclear assets==a bad question
result== ase admi ko do teen zoor se lagao.
THE END OF THE STORY
The President is so right.
Whoever creates a bad image of our
beloved motherland, ” Do chaar ticka
deN.” His advice must be followed!
When I used to see lawyers,protestors, even women
being dragged, beaten ruthlessly, I used to think that these Policewalas are so loyal than the king himself. But now I know it was and is being done on President’s express wishes.
Now the fact is that there is no bigger
person than the President himself who
has defamed Pakistan so much all over the world. Imagine, twice suspending the
constitution and putting three Chief Justices, & over fifty judges under arrest.
So pick up a picture of his, download it, tear it from a newspaper or whatever,
Paste it at your door and every morning
while going out:
DO CHAAR TICKA Do.
We must obey all the good advices from our beloved PRESIDENT.
Adnan: DAWN’s correspondent raised a very valid point. The government has not shown competence in apprehending terrorists and killers. What the journalist alluded (and by the way Ziauddian is one of senior most and well regarded journalists for over 30 years and very honest) is that people raise issues about skills or competence. Looking at the way, FATA, Lal Masjid, Benazir’s assassination and Rashid Rauf’s escape in “questionable” circumstances were handled, even Retired Genereals (like Faiz Chisti, who is very senior to Musharraf) have raised the issue of complicity. Journalists are supposed to ask questions, it is their job. Mush threatened him… and incited people to violence (do teen muka lagao). Is this becoming of some one who “claims” to be head of the state? And forget about silly notions about “our nuclear weapons”. Mush is a CIA agent, and he won’t dare do anything without their approval. All this is a charade to fool people like you. How old are you by the way?
NOW THIS WAS THE STYLE OF WASI ZAFFAR… IF U PPL REMEBER THAT BULDOG…MUSHARRAF IS LIK WASI… A MAN IS KNOW BY THE COMPANY HE KEEPS..MUSH IS THE TRUE RESEASON ..OF THE DOWN FALL OF IMAGE OF PAK….HE IS THE TRUE DICATATOR…HE HAS POWER TO REMOVE JUGDES..CAN CAHNGE THE CONSTITUTION..CAN SHUT OFF ELECTRONIC N PRINT MEDIA..CAN MAKE HIS OWN PPL CRAZY ..FOR WHEAT, ELECTRICITY,FUEL,JOBS.EDUCATION …N SOO OONNN.. HE IS THE AGENT OF USA… DONT KNOW YYY FEW PPL OF PAK SUPPORT HIM????? R THESE PPL FOOL HU R SUPPORTING HIM???OR WE PPL HU R AGAINST HIM?????
Alhamdulilllah, this has only increased me in my respect for Musharraf. The man speaks like a true patriotic Pakistani. The fact of the matter is that this “senior journalist” showed his true indian/afghan/bangoli colours when he questioned the safety of pakistani nukes and drew a parallel with the rashid rauf episode. How shameful is that! Especially given the fact that this transpired in London in front of people affiliated with a major think tank! Most patriotic Pakistanis are with pres. Musharraf on this one. Its time our journalists and politicians learn something of patriotism…
Pakistan zindabad!
I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Mr. Ziauddin did not put forth a “tough question” to begin with. His question would be classified as a “red-herring” in logic and a “non-sequitor.” That is, just because Rauf escaped from police custody, it does not follow that whatever Musharraf has said about the safe keeping of Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal is false. The two are unconnected issues. Police incompetency in keeping Rauf in custody does nothing to negate the arguments which were mounted to convince outsiders about the quality of Pakistan’s nuclear safety regime.
That many Pakistanis cannot understand something so straightforward shows how brain-dead many have become.
Therefore, rather than posing a “tough” question, Mr. Ziauddin showed us that he is incapable to think logically and critically.
Worse, Mr. Ziauddin is a good example of the generally low quality and standard of the new breed of sensational Pakistani media. It fares no better than the lowly “the Sun” of the UK or the “fair and balanced” Fox News of the US.
Finally, Musharraf was only joking when he later said: “or mayray khayal mein us ko dou teen tikka b dain tou acha hai.” The audience present at the time also understood that as a light-hearted comment and, therefore, laughed. I can’t imagine anyone hearing that statement in context concluding that Musharraf was offering a serious threat. If you do, and obviously some people here do, then there is something wrong with you mentally.
The talk in question by Musharraf was excellent, though in a more laxed environment. He talked seriously and also put forth some jokes…get over it and stop “reading” too much into innocent comments here and there.
Sophia, your comments are riddled with rhetoric and unsubstantiated assertions. You need to calm down first and then have a discussion with others. But one think you said is absolutely spot on:
“A MAN IS KNOW BY THE COMPANY HE KEEPS”
This is the reason why I will never support individuals such as I. Khan, N. Sharif, Zardari and the likes of I. Chaudhary. In my personal experience, in character these are among some of the lowest of the low individuals I’ve ever come across in my life. The lawyers in Pakistan behave more like gangsters, who vicously abuse anyone who dares disagrees with them. In the emergency crises I was shocked by the abuse I saw on channels such as GEO, the insults being heaped against the President and, more recently, the open abuse and gutter language spewed by PPP, PTI, and PML-N activists in London when Musharraf was visiting 10 Downing Street.
If these are the type of people you support, then like you said, “A MAN IS KNOW BY THE COMPANY HE KEEPS”…Moreover, people of such a low-character cannot ever give life to a genuine movement. Whatever movement they initiate is likely to be as lowly, rusted, and gutter-type like their characters and behaviour.
Musharraf is not perfect, but he is at least a generally decent person, a humble person, and I respect him for that. What he has done for Pakistan in a short span of time is amazing, be it Pakistan’s economic recovery to increasing the strength of its armed forces. For this reason a man such as myself, who is not affiliated with any political party, would rather have Musharraf in place instead of the losers we had in the past.
Laila, Ziauddin did not raise a “valid” point. He raised an IRRELEVANT point, a red-herring. Even if he is right about Rauf, that simply has no bearing and relation with the nuclear topic. Rauf’s escape does not negate what was said by the President about Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal and its safe-keeping. In the language of an idiot, the two are UNCONNECT AND IRRELEVANT issues.
This question by Ziauddin shows how distorted his thoughts really are. And if he is regarded as a very respected, honest and senior” journalist in Pakistan, well then, it shows that the ones who regard him as such fare no better than Ziauddin!
And what about the Lal-Masjid? Musharraf did the right think by getting rid of those extremist terrorists. No nation on earth would tolerate such hooliganism. Had the Lal-Masjid been located in Saudi Arabia, the authorities would have immediately eliminated them. Yet the Pakistan government for months negotiated with these terrorists!
The same about FATA. It is in Pakistan’s interest to fight the terrorists there.
There is nothing “suspicious” about BB’s assasination. The Scotland Yard has pretty much endorsed what Pakistani officials had said, as have others.
And to correct you, Musharraf DID NOT “threaten” the ever so daft Ziauddin. Musharraf, later, only made a light-hearted comment. It was a joke. The audience understood it was a joke and all laughed with him. Why are you guys hell-bent on interpreting it as a “threat”? It is as if you desperately desire for it to have been an actual “threat”!
The CIA “agent” part is nothing more than abuse on your part. Unfortunately, when people have no legs to stand upon by way of a rational argument, they usually hit back with abuse and slander. You are doing precisely this.
How old are you by the way? :)
Well. You make personal remarks. Most of us having grown up during military regimes have no understanding of the concept of freedom of press or expression. Ziauddin had every right to ask any question… that is his job. People who criticise him have a misguided sense of patriotism. Yes, a government that colludes with ‘terrorists’ OR is incompetent can not enjoy high credibility in safeguarding nuclear weapons. Forget about the West, this government cannot even ensure law and order in the NWFP. Let’s face the facts instead of accusing each other. Mush is a CIA agent and an AGENT is NOT a PATRIOT.
Read up guys. Musharraf like his predecessor - Zia ul Haq is an American stooge. If you do not know that, you need to come to this planet.
Lailia, I find it amazing that you have the audacity to (wrongly) accuse others of making “personal remarks” when you are, in fact, all along engaging in ad hominem comments and insults. This is known an “psychological projection.” That is, when you abuse you accuse others of abusing, and when you make personal remarks you accuse others of making personal remarks. So don’t project your undesirable tendencies upon others.
In my personal experience, I find people who oppose Musharraf to be generally duffers, with a low IQ, and unable to think straight on their own. Some, without a doubt, are very bright. But most are like you…full of anger, hate, rage, ready to spew allegations, and behave in a dispicable manner.
Worse, you lack the ability to critically engage with an opponent’s argument. Yes, Ziauddin had every right to ask “any question”, but lets face it, he proved he was daft and intellectually slow in posing an irrelevant question. Ziauddin was essentially committing a fallacy…something which any sober minded person can see. Yet you are so full of rage against President Musharraf that you cannot understand something so simple. Since you insist that Ziauddin is a “senior” journalist, this then puts immense responsibility on his shoulders. A “senior” reporter asks relevant questions; not stupid and irrelevant questions. Moreover, besides committing a fallacy Ziauddin was basically implying that President Musharraf was wrong in his claims about the safety of Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal. Do you agree with Ziauddin and, if so, do you want the Americans to come into Pakistan and take over? It seems to be that while you wrongly abuse President Musharraf for being an “American agent”, you are actually siding with someone (Ziauddin) who endorses the entry of Americans!
And when you say: “Most of us having grown up during military regimes have no understanding of the concept of freedom of press or expression”, is that supposed to be a valid excuse for stupidity? You may not understand the concept of freedom of speech, press and expression, but you can still act smart by using your head once in a while.
That Pakistan allegedly “colludes” with terrorists is simply a baseless allegation on your part. The rest of your comments are more allegations and unsubstantiated assertions. Your attitude is similar to that of a child, who screams a series of allegations when angry and upset. Not a very good way of argumentation (how old are you? :) )
Furthermore, why have you added inverted commas around the term terrorists (as in: “terrorists”)? Groups and individuals whom we normally address as terrorists are not really terrorists in your view? Jee, that should tell us a lot about you :)
I find some of the comments on this blog hair raising. Some of you have actually advodated censoring information,because it hurts the ’state’s image’? Well what do you mean by the state? Mush and his cronies, or the establishment ( military, bureacuracy) that people do not vote in? As a journalist I am quite sick of people blaming all the ills of a society on the media. Remember we do not have the skill or the time to churn out fiction. Most of us hold a mirror onto society and if your face is ugly, its not our fault. Though there is room for improvement in every profession, there are some journalists who have an impeccable record and the nation should be very proud of. Mr Ziauddin is one such journalist. He is an extremely well respected jouranlist and if he can be treated like the way he was, then God save the rest of us.
Nobody, not a dictator or a politician or the public should be able to get away with inciting violence against anyone. We as journalists are horrified by the way some officials are encouraging people to ’smack and suppress’ those who are critical.One of the bloggers said, journalists and lawyers are ‘asteen ka sanp.’ We condemn such spiteful remarks and remind you that journalists and lawyers are the intellectual base of any society. It was a lawyer who founded this nation, that you profess to protect. Nation’s are not protected by hiding what went wrong, but by correcting it. And if you do not have the courage to recognize what went wrong, I doubt you will have the courage to fix it.
As a journalist it is our duty to be critical and to speak and write the truth. Our commitment has to be to the truth and the people rather than to governments or dictators.
Vaneeza: You are spot on him. I feel some people have no idea of what are they talking about. Ziauddin is a journalist of highest integrity with a track record spread over decades. He asked a right question. I would trade him for this dictator Musharraf any time. Freedom of Press and Freedom of Expression can not be compromised. Mush does not represent any one. Even if he did, jornalists have every right to ask any question. That right can never be compromised. It is one of the basic principles of a democratic and civilised society.
M.S. People opposing Mush are not duffers with low IQ. You are a teenager or one of the cluless living in Defence society who have no idea of how people and the country have suffered under him. His oppenents include Cambridge-educated lawyers like Aitzaz Ahsan, Pakistan’s most respected judges like Wajihuddin and Fakhruddin G. Ibrahim, top Professors like Hasan Askari and Talat Wizarat, former top diplomats like Tanweer A. Khan, Allam Iqbal’s son like Javed Iqbal. What world do you live in? Burgerland?
The guy has guts. He’s pretty blunt when it comes to discussion doesn’t hold back thts wht i like about him. Have you ever in our life or previous ones seen a president who took these tough questions, answered them and the journalist went home safe? Our current democratic champion nawaz sharrif used to not even let them near him let alone ask a question. As i also recall all the people who are in the pakistani community gathering are pretty much pre-screened and he let him in. As for the country suffering because of him the country right now practically stands because of him. we’ve been through god knows wht i always say if there was another leader civil or military. In no way would have they handled crisis after crisis like he has and brilliantly to if i may add. What has he done to those people? most of you forget where we come from wht a person with powers like musharraf could practically do. Most of what has happened well they practically asked for it.
I just wanna share with you something that are democratic governments have done. i remember during this tv show a guy from jamaat claimed this government has broken all records on brutality and they actually showed a tape where the guy whose a leader during nawaz’s regime was bloodied up even cloths ripped apart. None of the policemen were actually arresting anyone just beating the living crap out of them infront of camera’s. This government has shown a lot of restraint a lot.
Mush killed Akbar Bugti and then blew off Benazir with the help of the CIA. You guys have no sense of history. It is not individuals or military dictators who build countries. It is the institutions. We need a system. ALL our institutions have been destroyed by ARMY over a long period of time. Most of the talented and brilliant people have left the country. Educational system is so fucked up that people who came out of it during the last 30 years do not even know that it is the ARMY that broke up Pakistan because ARMIES cannot build countries. people and institutions do
MAlik Aman!
I need to comment on your wrath on the media person who asked the dictator tough questions.
Please note and remember that the safety of any nekes cannot be determined by the statements of some 3rd class dictator and his team. The nuke are considered safe if the institutions in the country are performing independantly and there is a system in place that is recognised by the freemedia and international norms. If we continue to throwout the judiciary, impose restrictions on human rights, curb the media, put the legal fraternity behind the bar, carryout self suited amendments in the consitution illegally and we have democracy under the umbrella of the Army, how can anyone not question about the safety of our nukes?
Please note that we have to act as rational nation where personalities do not guarantee the survival of the nation but the system does. The dictator today has successfully given the false impression to the whole world that without him there is a likelyhood of the nukes getting in the hands of talibans. Also he stated in the same tour to the masters that Pakistan is fighting the war on terror and if the war stoped there is potential danger to the europe and USA. Does this war suit Pakistan’s interests? We are losing our sons on both sides of this war. Our own people are pitched against each other and our enemies are very happy over the situation. Why did the dictator emphasize upon the leaders and public opinion in the west about the importance of this war? Can anyone pointout anything else nut self interest in it? You see every other day pakistani army officers and jawans are dying in this war along with civillians. Whose loss is this? Should not we be advocating upon the world that war is no solution. We need to enter into a dialogue with talibans and Al Qareda and need to address to the grievances of the muslims across the world in order to curb the extremism. There can not be any peace in the world if the tyrany and killings of Palestinians, Iraqis, Chechans and Afghans are not addressed and resloved. Instead of doing this the idiot the dictator is, he was prompting the west to continue the war on terror and was presenting himself as the leader of the war on terror.
So Mr. Malik if you cannot dig deep enough please be honest to yourself and your country and then think should the world believein us when we are capable of throwing 60 plus judges of higher judiciary out of office illegally and yet claim that we are a country stable enough to take care of its nukes? Lip service will be of no use and that too from a person who is a traitor and even a fool would never trust traitors.
every pakisati related with journalism or army should have to look in his eyes, and review for his role can be porformed in the great intreast of pakistan.
response to the above comments of jawan
well yes i want the world to think that our nukes r SAFE even if we r going through a unstable time u want to know why ?
one answer i LOVE MY COUNTRY TOO MUCH MORE THAN THE JUDGES OR DICTATORS
mush didn’t do good to himself by humiliating and insulting a pakistani journalist in an international event,al
mush didn’t do good to himself by humiliating and insulting a pakistani journalist in an international event,mr zaiuddin was very much justified in asking about the disappearance of rashi rauf, as for the nukes,west should first itself develop some proper commands and control system and then come teaching us a lesson or two about effective command and control system,i guess most of you must be aware of recent failure of “effective state of the art command and control system” of Americans when a U.S. B52 bomber transported missiles armed with six live nuclear warheads. “By mistake”.
then they whine about alqaeda getting their hands on pakistani nukes, it must have been easier for alqaeda to get american nukes instead of pakistani nukes,with hundreds of live nukes it seems americans are finding it really hard to manage and control them…
maybe pakistani forces could lend a helping hand?
http://www.militarytimes.com/news/2007/09/airforce_nuclear_warhead_070905/
Laila Ahmed,
Yes Army was responsible for the partition of Pakistan. But there was someone from the civilian side who was enjoying the warm lap of army as well, at that time.
Do you know who it was? I will give you a hint. It was the same person who suggested Udhar tum, idhar ham.
I don’t mind you hold ARMY responsible but at the same time it was ZULFIQAR ALI BHUTTO who was raping the Pakistani nation and nationalizing the institutions so that he could become popular.
Lets not corrupt history, just because we only want to hear only 1 side of it.
(his staffer did realized that it wasn’t appropriate of him to bash a pakistani journalist so he rightly reminded him..then mush whispered to his staff”ye kon hai?ye zaiduddin hai? hain?) (moderator of the session question “what does he got to do with that?” mush continues “hokay(okay) yes yes indeed my remark stands…
canadian high commissioner asked the next question about poltical relation with Iran and Afghanistan and the quality of dialogue you’re enjoying with those two leaders, Mush’s head was spinning from the last question by Mr Zaiuddin so the minute he heard the word dialogue,he lit up, “we started the dialogue long time back it started with mr vajpaye it continued with mr Singh prime minister and it addresses all issues..(he kept going n going… and then his staffer had to again remind him that the question was actually about relation with iran and afghanistan and not India…)
With Accent
Your argument about Nationalization has nothing to do with East Pakistan. Please read Hamoodur Rehman commission report. They army raped, looted and plundered and sealed the chances of any reconciliation what so ever. And you have no idea, Bhutto never said, idhar hum udhar tum. This is a established fact. Talk to any Newspaper editor and they will tell it was quickly denied by Bhutto but the Army paid journalists keep printing it to deflect the criticism on Army. The problem is your history is corrupted by ISI and its paid agents like Cowasjee, etc.
Laila, try to read more attentively. I didn’t say that all who oppose Musharraf are duffers or have a low IQ. I said most, in my opinion, fall under these categories (one of them being you). You then confirm my impression when you, yet again, ignore the arguments and simply launch into senseless insults and unsubstantiated allegations. To correct your lies: I am not a “teenager.” Probably you are, judging from your incoherent writing. Nor do I live in “Defence society.” But, for arguments sake, even if I was, it does not negate anything I said. Besides being low on manners and etiquettes, you also appear to have a hatred for the dwellers of Defence society and are, therefore, stereotyping them. As for Aitezaz Ahsan, thanks for telling us about your bad and filthy company.
Vaneeza, you are a good representative of the low class standards of journalism prevalent in Pakistan. Your absurd statement that “Most of us hold a mirror onto society and if your face is ugly, its not our fault” is a a good excuse and cover to spread disinformation. That you are mentally unstable and almost completely incapable of thinking critically - something which a good, qualified and trained journalist/reporter is supposed to do - can be inferred from your statement that we should be proud of Ziauddin. I don’t think that even a moron would have a tough time seeing that Ziauddin committed a LOGICAL FALLACY in his question. Yet you are so far behind the standard of a moron that you cannot get something so straightforward into your head.
Worse, you humiliate yourself by the false statement that Musharraf had incided “violence” towards the ever so daft Ziauddin. He did no such thing as I had explained. Musharraf simply made a light hearted joke and the audience took his statement as a joke as well. That’s all. Unless you can show to us that you have the powers to get into his mind, Musharraf had no intention of threatening Ziauddin with violence when he made his light hearted statement. Yet you guys, particularly a “journalist” such as yourself, are so full of hate and contempt that you will twist innocent statements and interpret them in unnatural ways, disregarding the context in which they were uttered. Again, you are a good representative of low level sub-tabloid styled journalism in Pakistan.
Your entire hate filled tirade stands in stark contrast to your vain protests of being “critical” and for having a “committment with the truth.” You have no such qualities.
d0ct0r, I have heard the entire talk, it is available for download from the RUSI website. Musharraf was not particularly “insultive” towards Ziauddin, nor did he “humiliate” Ziauddin. Musharraf, quite understandably, was taken by surprise by Ziauddin’s daft comment…but he proceeded to answer him well.
And no, Ziauddin was not “justified” in asking that question. You may say that he had the right to ask the question, even a silly irrelevant question, but it remains that the question was not “justified.” You said:
“as for the nukes,west should first itself develop some proper commands and control system and then come teaching us a lesson or two about effective command and control system”
Well, I only wish this is how Ziauddin thought. But sadly, no. Instead, if you listen to the entire episode, you will see that Ziauddin was attempting to directly contradict and question Musharraf’s argument that Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal was safe. Briefly, Ziauddin was making this type of an argument (this is a paraphrase): “you talk about the safety of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons, yet you were not even able to hold Rauf…so if Rauf escaped, what about the safe-keeping of the nuclear weapons?” Now tell me, anyone who cares and loves Pakistan, would they not get slightly shocked at such a line of questioning? Of course they would.
What many people here, who are writing only from hate and anger, cannot understand is that Ziauddin was comitting a logical fallacy in his questioning which, in turn, shows to us that he is not a very intelligent person. That Rauf escaped does not have any bearing upon the security mechanism and command structure over the nuclear arsenal. That Rauf escaped does not mean our weapons are not safe. The two are irrelevant issues. Why can’t others understand something so simple?
Have there been no escapes of prisoners in the UK, US, Germany, India etc? And does that mean that their entire nuclear safety system is crap and without substance???!!
In light of the above, all who try to defend this silly Ziauddin, simply out of spite for Musharraf, tells us that they are no better than the lowly IQ holder Ziauddin.
MALIK
History will not judge you what you felt in your heart but what were your actions/ deeds. So even if you love your country, it requires to be followed by the deeds and actions to confirm it.
Please wakeup. Pakistan was not formed for military rule. If you are suffering from the inferiority complex and overwhlemed by the military and like wise evry citizen of Pakistan has been, then we should forget about the civilian rule. We need to rise and say that we want our country to be ruled by the civilians and the army should be one of the civil servant agencies like many others and nothing else. The COAS reporting to the defence secretary only.
I hope civilians have the guts to come out of their inferiority complex while dealing with army.
To MS
I agree with you on the point of the lawyers. Has anyone ever had dealings with the lawyers? if so you’ll know what a dishonest bunch they are. Furthermore, the crazy looking guy during the crisis last year was insulting the judges and questioning their paternity? these are professionals? come on! more like a shame to society!
Also where does Nawaz Sharif get off talking of rule of law etc… has everyone forgotten his last tenure as PM! Pathetic man! a true ‘liar’
Doctor
ok mush didnt did a good thing by humilating the journalist but i ask u a question did the journalist did a good thing by humilating the president
Its a duty of generalist to ask questions, thats what they are paid for. The question was not unparliamentary, but Musharaf’s response was vehement n volatile. But since he is a president of PAKISTAN, anything is likely.
Arrest warrants of Editor of Yahoo News,Tausif Hanif issued
Karachi : Arrest warrants of Editor of Yahoo News ,Tausif Hanif has been issued by the Judicial Magistrate.South Rubab Fatima in a defamation criminal case filed by the Chief Controller of Karachi Building Control Authority,Rauf Akthar Farooqui.
Chief Controller of KBCA Rauf Akthar Farooqui filed a criminal defamation case,361/08 in the Court of Judicial Magistrate South Rubab Fatima ,claming that the Editor of Yahoo News wrongly published news against the allegedly corruption of KBCA officials and Chief Controller of KBCA.Chief Controller of KBCA in his case made DO Cordination of DCO Karachi ,Syed Mukaram Sultan Bukhari a respondent too, and arrests warrants for DO Syed Mukaram Sultan Bukhari also has been issued by the JM South Rubab Fatima in a similar way.
It may be noted here that Chief Controller has earlier filed a defamation Civil Suit 1594/07 in the Sindh High Court claming 5 crore rupees as a damages for publishing news against his alleged corruption in Yahoo News, on the direction of Chief Controller Four other Town Building Controllers of KBCA have also filed defamation suits(134/08.33/08.34/08) in Sindh High court during previous days. Half of Dozens Cases have been filed against the Editor of Yahoo News by the Chief Contoller of KBCA Rauf Akthar Farooqui and his subordinates Town Building Control Officers.Chief Controller issued alleged directions to all 18 Town Building Control Officers for the filings of cases against the Editor of Yahoo News.
Those who say that Musharraf degraded the nation and incited violence should look at the attitude of that journalist when he started to raise internal issues infront of the foreign media to degrade Pakistan, that journalist was wrong for attempting to degrade Pakistan in the eyes of the foreign media.
Infact Musharraf never incited violence in the Pakistani community, he got a good feedback from the audience.
This is rich coming from the man who lead a coup to further his career and then stayed in power by screwing the country over and over. Is this not the person who said that Pakistanis are not capable and worthy of true democracy? and also that rape victims in Pakistan actually claim to have been raped to get visas for western countries.
I think the only honorable option left for true Pakistanis is to expose people like Musharaf and confront them wherever and whenever possible and let the world also know that not all Pakistanis are without conscience. The shame is in the acts of treason not in pointing out these acts.
Let me respond to Hash’s hashish laden lies:
To claim that Musharraf “screwed” the country “over and over again” is just a bald faced lie. Instead, after the founding father he has been probably the best leader for Pakistan. More development took place under Musharraf in 7-8 years than in the whole of the 1947-1999 period. His performance, specially compared to the ones who came before him, is excellent to say the least.
Hash asks: “Is this not the person who said that Pakistanis are not capable and worthy of true democracy?” Response: Produce your evidence if you are truthful. Period. I personally believe that Pakistanis are not worthy of true democracy and this view of mine has solidified since the past election which saw the return of the same old chor and lucchakas. But when has Musharraf claimed that “Pakistanis are not capable and worthy of true democracy?” NEVER. So stop telling LIES.
Hash’s next lie:
“…rape victims in Pakistan actually claim to have been raped to get visas for western countries.” Response: NEVER has Musharraf said this. Your hatred for Musharraf is so intense that it is forcing you to concoct lies from thin air.
After engaging in the dishonourable act of telling lies, Hash has no right to advice others about “honourable” options. Someone honourably and ethically bankrupt (Hash) cannot tell others about honourable ways. This is akin to the pot calling the kettle black.
Hash’s entire lie filled comments are also irrelevant to the original topic: Ziauddin making an ass of himself in posing a weird question to Musharraf.
As a Pakistani of conscience, it is my duty to expose liars such as Hash and total duffers such as Ziauddin.
Sameer, Musharraf’s reply was not “volatile” to the question posed by Ziauddin. Musharraf went on to explain why Ziauddin was wrong in his questioning.
Also, I get the impression that many people who post comments here are either just thick in the head or have decided to oppose something merely for the sake of opposition. I’ve explained this a number of times yet the statement is still made that:
“Its a duty of generalist to ask questions, thats what they are paid for.”
No organization (at least professional ones) pay journalists to ask just about ANY question that may come to their mind. Journalists are paid to ask RELEVANT and SENSIBLE questions pertaining to the topic at hand. They cannot go to a conference dealing with the environment and ask: “do you have a radio in your car?” Well…sure, they CAN ask this question, but its a silly question and they would probably get fired doing so.
What Ziauddin did was ask something that was 1. logical problematic (fallacy of non-sequitor); 2. irelevant (red-herring fallacy). I’ve explained the reasons for this above.
If this type of a question was deemed “adequate” by his organization, then that just goes on to show the lowly standards of journalism maintained by Ziauddin’s organization.
Get it? I DOUBT IT!
OK here we go.
comments about rape victims:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4251536.stm
And try google you will find loads of other credible sources stating the same.
comments about democracy:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article3387244.ece
Again you can google it.
I might as well add the reference to how the 2002 elections were rigged to so that the rest of the world would believe that that Pakistanis support religious extremists to win support for illegitimate govt.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/14/world/asia/14pstan.html?fta=y
I think hate is a strong word, and yes I do have a strong dislike for dictators, which I believe is much petter than being madly in love with them.
If you ever bother to remove your blindfold you will be able differentiate between lies and truth.
Musharraf did not make a blanket comment regarding all rape victims, suggesting that anyone who gets raped or claims to have been raped is lying to make money and to get foreign visa. Notice the intial claim you attributed to Musharraf:
“…rape victims in Pakistan actually claim to have been raped to get visas for western countries.”
This I repeat is a bald-faced lie. Never has Musharraf said anything even remotely along these lines.
Your BBC link does not cite Musharraf saying this.
Hash wrote:
“And try google you will find loads of other credible sources stating the same.”
I did and I came across tons of papers misquoting Musharraf and quoting him out of context. Further, I came across reports in which Musharraf denied ever making the above type of a claim.
The second issue, democracy. Let me quote the initial assertion you attributed to Musharraf:
“Is this not the person who said that Pakistanis are not capable and worthy of true democracy?â€Â
You then provide a link from timesonline to prove your claim. But, guess what: THE ARTICLE NO WHERE QUOTES MUSHARRAF CLAIMING THE ABOVE.
If you are truthful, then present your evidence for the claim that Musharraf said that Pakistanis are not capable and worthy of true democracy. That’s my challenge to you.
Next, you talk about the alleged “rigged” elections of 2002. But this is a RED-HERRING - a common debating ploy. Assuming, for arguments sake, even if you are right, that does not in any way justify your above two lies. They still remain lies even if the elections were “rigged” in 2002.
I agree that “hate” is a strong word, but considering the lies you have uttered and repeated twice, I would say that it is absolutely right to describe you as a hatefilled person since you are letting your hate drive you to extremes - telling lies (jhoot).
I know how to differentiate between lies and truth, perhaps it is now time for you to learn the distinction?
Musharraf is my President and I am proud of him. I will always select this “dictator” over scums choors and luchakkas such as Zardari, Nawaz Sharif, Shabaz Sharif, Sherry Rehman, etc…
M.S.
You can dance around the words all you want, with your blind love people like you can always find a reason to be rude as they are not interested in having a civilized discussion and being a civilian and being civilized are frowned upon by their military heros. You will keep on arguing either saying the wording does not match or any number of other such reasons. If I see a problem with democracy in Pakistan it is the attitude you displayed quite well here, blind worship of whoever is in power even when faced with the facts pointing to the contrary. I am quite sure if there was a discussion around corrupt practices of Sherif and Bhutto while they were in power someone not so different from yourself will come along claiming its against the interest of the country to do so.
For a democratic society to exist the government is to be answerable to the people not the other way round. The military, the government and the country exist for the people not the other way round. It is my belief that given the right opportunity the people of Pakistan can and will overcome these obstacles.
So now rush along and write some more dribble with a lot of words but not saying anything, other than showing that you will keep on supporting whoever is in power as long as they are in power and then you will start supporting whoever is in power next in hope of getting some crumbs from their tables. Its an easy life but certainly not an honorable one.
I on my part am not going to respond to anymore of your posts as it is an exercise in futility.
“There is a wide difference between speaking to deceive, and being silent to be impenetrable.” - Voltaire
“So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize them will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent, and will devote themselves in the name of any number of gods, religious or otherwise, to put shackles on sleeping men.†- Voltaire
Hash, not only do you have a thick brain-dead head, you once again commit the fallacy of red-herring. Instead of engaging with the arguments and acknowledging that you lied, you again go on and regarding irrelevant issues. Let’s accept all of your claims at face value. It still remains that your two initial assertions were LIES.
Lies do not transform into truth when you start harping over irrelevant issues.
To give you an example: I claim that you, Hash, are a murderer and give a link from timesonline which, according to me, states that Hash is a murderer. You look at the timesonline article and discover that it has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to say about you. So you come back to me and say: “M.S., you lied, timesonline does not say I am a murderer; in fact, it says nothing about me! will you apologise for lying?” I reply: “but you cheated in your exams and you said this about me to someone else, and you are ugly” etc etc…on and on.
This is precisely what you are doing here.
Again, consider this allegation of yours about Musharraf:
“Is this not the person who said that Pakistanis are not capable and worthy of true democracy?â€Â
When I challenged you, you gave a link from timesonline. I read the article and it SAID NOTHING along the above lines. Simply put: YOU LIED.
Why don’t you apologise for your lie?
Instead, you have the audacity to accuse me of “dancing” around words! Unless you have a comprehension problem and the incurable mental sickness of SELF-DECEPTION, I used plain and simple words and kept my comments to the point.
You, in contrast, are now waffling!
i wished Pakistani people should have some respect for each other and except there defeat but seeing u two fight i now know from where the politcians get these kinds of behiviour
answer:= from US example MS and HASH
Thank you for your weird comment Malik Aman (weird as it makes no sense),
People fight over all sorts of issues; sometimes they fight for good causes and reasons whereas sometimes they fight in defence of evil.
I replied to two specific lies in circulation here. Why is this “wrong”?
If you wish to defend Hash’s above exposed 2 outright lies, then say so clearly so we can have a discussion.
I know where you (and so many other Pakistanis) acquire the behaviour of not speaking up against lies: from Nawaz Basdmash Sharif, BB, Zardari, Aitezaz, etc.
i totaly agree with you that what ever HASH was saying was nonsense but it is not his fault it is the hate for musharraf that is driving him to write what he is writing .
THere is a beautifull saying that
” when you do something good no one remembers and when you do something bad no one forgets”
Well same is the case with poor Musharraf we have forgoten whatever good things he did and we diging up bad things that he may never have done.
And beleive me i am not like all those politicans that u mentioned above. i am just a patriotic Pakistani
i think its not a fault of musharraf because he said that what he could…as he is a coward nonsense illitearte man so what else could be expected from him!!!!!!!whatever is going on in pakistan is only because of our sins….
musharrf is actually( Azab ) on our nation.. we all should individually do toba astagfaar with pure heart and pray for the pakistan and pakistani people….
musharaaf cant do anyhting he is coward,greedy man ..he has no ability to do good even he cant think good………………..
so remember we have to rescue pakistanis and pakistan….this is our pakistan we are the real owners of this country….we should pray to Allah to get rid of this AZAB……….
Mr. “proud to be a pakistani” is 100% correct when he says that “whatever is going on in pakistan is only because of our sins….”
This consists of the sin of telling outright LIES and nonsense by idiots such as Mr. “proud to be a pakistani.” It is because so many of our people, such as Mr. “proud to be a pakistani”, happen to be HABITUAL LIARS, that Allah has decided to punish them for their sins by once again imposing upon them the lowly likes of Zardari and Sharifs.
You DESERVE these looters to be your rulers for the sins you commit on this shoddy forum.
You lack the elementary ability to READ carefully; to critically think using your brain once in a while (because you have no brains), and for telling BLATANT LIES (e.g., Musharraf being “illiterate”, a “coward”, “no ability to do good” etc…these are just gross abuses, and you IDIOT still have the audacity to invoke Allah Subhana watala!).
I believe true Muslims (not Mr. “proud to be a pakistani”) should do toba astagfaar for the SINS of FABRICATING LIES committed by Mr. “proud to be a pakistani” and so many other stupid Pakistanis here….May be Allah MIGHT overlook YOUR sins and LIES and give us riddance from Zardari and Sharifs once again.
Musharraf is simply a “sonofabitch”.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/11/09/dl0902.xml
Jaan-e-Alalm, in response to your abuse, you’ve only given evidence of yourself being the real “sonofabitch” by providing a link to an article which basically gives a lie to much of what anti-Musharraf folks repeat time and time again. According to those who hate Musharraf, Musharraf has gone out of his way to assist the Americans in the so-called “war on terrorism”, so much so that the masses in the Tribal areas have risen up against the Pakistan army etc.
But if we are to follow your link, then Musharraf has really not done anything against extremists and has taken merely artificial actions against them.
SO WHICH IS IT?
This is indicative of your mental disorder, a disease with you and your sick type.
On the one hand Musharraf is lambasted for having taken too much action against extremists and for failing to negotiate with them. At the same time he is lambasted for having taken next to no action against extremists and, in fact, strengthening the Islamists.
If this ridiculously contradictory attitude and mental disorder does not prove you to be a “sonofabitch” and a maha kameena of the worst kind, then I don’t know what does.
Dear all,
I read quite a few article on this blog and have come to the conclusion that most of the posts are to either degrade or insult the President of Pakistan. The interesting fact is that most of the comments following posts are from literate people who can atleast use a computer and can traslate their urdu straight into presentable english format, without knowing what they are talking about.
I would not cite exact figures from biased links. We dont deserve a leader like Musharraf thats all. Anything that I would say has a counter response,
for e.g. if i say our national treasure is soaring with $$ .. the obvious response is this money came “by selling the national jewels like ptcl, hbl and few other national entities. You ignorant people these entities were nothing but big empty boxes, to your so called enlightment you could not find a single year where they have shown substantial profit, they were nothing but burden. You would not find a single year where they have reported anything but crap. Over employed from political workers and their relatives. Today they live again only to serve the ungrateful.
I can comment on terrorism to wheat shortage and fuel prices but banging head against …. whatever is of no use. Let the corrupt politicians talk sweet and steal faith.
thumbs up for the above post.
One more thing people living outside Pakistan have more love for Pakistan and they tend to like Musharraf too inlcuding me.
Because thay know that whats its like to live in a country thats not thiers.
wat i do believe dat he is an aggresively st.forward person n he dnt know bout table talk.cuz he,s soppose to b a warrior.as he trained.yes thr is some training fault of our army thy r always try to win da nation of pak.internationaly thy brought us to our knees.it,s embarissing outlook.as u know 65,71 wars.the worst thing he hd done is dat he 99% weakn da strenght of defence n support of nation esp in war.may AALAH bless us all.we love our country n our country close to edge?(GOD forbid)
WE THE GOOF PAKISTANI’s. i have listened the audio recording whats wrong in it he is just explaining about an attitude of journalist who was trying to bring bad name to Pakistan. in fact we are goof that some body specially picked up a portion of his speech, writes an article and places it on internet we just started commenting on the President. he should not be ashamed you should be ashamed who are doing same thing which that journalist was doing. you will realize once he will leave this post and so called your leader will hand over your nuclear assets to America.Try to understand that this media campaign against your President who has only strong nerves to with stand the crises. dont expect from Zardari (morally corrupt) and Nawaz Sharif (Qadooo) to stand in front of crises they will run away.his image is intentionally being defamed and we the GOOF PAKISTANI’s ZINDABAD.
I dont think that was a tough question. It has become fashionable to criticize Pervez Musharraf for everything. Mr. Ziauddin should not have asked that question in the bevy of foreign journalist who are always trying to find things to malign Pakistn.
Mr. Ziauddin should have asked this question in Pakistan. That was not the right forum.
I heared Musharraf say that “aik do tikka bhi daina chahiye” but I think that that was in lighter vein.
he is nuts…
this is what we call image building musharraf style.