Shaheed or Halak ? - Ghazi Abdul Rashid

i have no comments on this issue doc. i am literally tongue tied.

I remember when I used to hear the song…”pakistani fauj kai jawaan hain ham, har gharee tayyar kamraan hain hamm….” when I was a kid and I wanted to join the AirForce so bad, but I had weak eyesight and my dream didn’t come true.

Now I thank Allah I didn’t join Pak Air Force, other wise I would be just obeying TAGHOOT….

Where are those Jawans who would make us proud of Pakistan Army again, I’m sure there are some gems under the dirty of Corrupt Generals.

So you respect the masjid even if it is illegal and based on fitna ? No way! We have an example from the life of our Holy Prophet (PBUH), where he razed a mosque (Masjid e Zarrar I think) where munafiqeen used to stay and plan their mischief.

I don’t brand him a shaheed … no way.

Dr. Awab, you disappoint me. Your constant anti-government stand is irritating.

Tell me, do you support building a mosque and madrassa on illegally occupied land? Please read my last post on my blog regarding this issue about how a mosque (Masjid Zarrar) was demolished in the era of Prophet (PBUH) with his express permission and the reason for it.

After reading it, tell me if you deny the Sunnah of the Prophet (PBUH) just to further your dislike of the current government?

The link is:

http://www.asadasif.com/?itemid=108

Asad & Raza,

To me this issue is NOT about a masjid, but a stand against the rampant degrading morals of our society. To me it has been that ever since. I don’t proclaim that they DID the right thing, I have categorically repeated that even a number of times in my previous posts. I said the ‘way he did it is wrong’ and even stated that Musharraf was forced to take this step to attack the militants. Mosques to are just a wall of bricks they are not what beholds our religion of Islam, its far more then a stone wall.

But the point of this post is to raise a perfectly valid question, to decide if one man’s enemy is another man Freedom Fighter. Its how you look at the argument that one chooses the point of view.

To me Ghazi Brothers took a very valid argument - ‘degrading morals of our society’. They hollered, they screamed, they like many of our MMA Maulvis felt the only way to create change is to force it. Wrong it may be, but after all that is the way many scholars have predicted since long, that the only way they will enforce a true Islamic State is through a bloody revolution. I being a liberal am against it but the issue must be addressed rather then shoved under the carpet.

Though I must concede in light of both of your arguments I might take a slight step back on the Shahdat label, but the argument does stand.

After what has been happening in Islamabad for the past 6 months, if all you can bother to argue about is who is “shaheed” and who isnt, you should be the poster boys of the ignorance and intolerance that these types of people represent.

One more time govt failed to handle the situation successfully.

Ghazi brothers opted for a wrong solution for a right and just problem. I think the issue could be settled easily if Govt. accepted their demands of implementation of sharia in Islamic Republic of Pakistan, remained stick to their agreement. The faith in Govt. promises was badly shaken when they didn’t comply to their promises of rebuilding the demolished masjids ( if illegal property was the issue then Govt should atleast started the rebuilding of masjids on legitimate properperties ,not all the of the demolished masjids were on illegal property).
If Govt. accepted these demands, it would left no room for Ghazi borthers to continue their protest. But this issue was let loose , letting it to get prepared for mournful week of july.

Then again during the negotiations, at the last moment the whole situation took a complete U turn, followed by the the shahadat of moulana abdur-rasheed ghazi.

several sources are raising the question that , if Nawaz Shareef , Benazir ,Zardari, Murtaza Bhutto, and several other criminals are freed from their criminal charges and offered a safe exit from this country , then why the Govt. is not willing to leave rasheed ghazi. And keeping in view the human rights, why didn’t he captured alive. does all alleged terrorists are subject to shoot at sight? Now who is abusing the law. if someone is criminal , he/she should have a trial in court and not on the streets. Furthermore, absence of media made the govt.’s point of view highly non-reliable. The humiliation of abdul-aziz during burqa presentation also shows the how high does the dictators hold the moral values.

Same as others , i too , condemn the strategy adopted by Ghazi Brothers , but their cause was no doubt a justified one.

One thing is that, there are several illegitimate properties in almost every corner of pakistan, and mostly the upper class has benefited from this mafia. WHY aren’t they handled with the same might as those of the masjids that were demolished being on illegitimate property. WHY we have double standards of dealing, for those who are in Power or have influence and for those who don’t enjoy such benefits. WHY still the brothels are kept functioning ??

totally agreed with faraz why their is double standard…Altaf (they murdered 40 people on the streets of karachi, did not allow CJ to leave the airport, in other words challanged the writ of the government yet not even an inquiry and a pat on the back by our president

liberals who always criticize religious parties for their suppoort of Zia’s dictatorial rule (rightly so) but support the current dictator in total disregard to the fact that he violated the contitution

Another Sad day In Troubled chequred History of our country.
I feel Ghazi and His Followers just fell in the trap set for them. It really amazes that how all this could just go on right under the noses of agencies. It would have been so much easier for the Govt to have Ghazi missing from the outset when the issue first broke.

As long as he was serving the purpose of Musharraf (U all Know what I mean) it was Ok.
But when the deed was done. It was time to Dispose him.

Shameful
Allah He Hafiz

@Raza: Prophet(SAW) doesn’t exist anymore and that order was given to Prophet(saw) only and that was pretty exceptional case. Don’t compare it with illegal construction otherwise you sound no different than MMA people who torn the pages of new bill which had name of Allah and they also gave same lame reason of their own filth. Nobody asked you to give fatwa who is shaheed or not.

@Asif: if awab’s constant anti govt rants irritate you than your constant trolling irritate others as well. You keep whining about “Illegal mosque” while the entire Islamabad is a frikkin illegal state. Go and do your homework first before you come out of your room and rant.

ghazi is saheed or not, Allah knows but when I saw his picture today on INternet, he would be burried in his own dress rather typical kaffan and what I have read in papers that Shaheeds are burried in same dress in which they fight and die because they will lift up in same dress and would be presented infront of Allah. So what Allah decides for him, Allah knows the best but so far it seems Allah wants him to appear as Shaheed for the people of this world. Rest, Allah knows the best.

@ Siddiqi: Interesting how you butt into the conversation when even Awab conceded the specific point I was trying to make regarding religion not being bound to a building.

I fully agree with the point that while Abdul Rasheed’s intentions might have been good (not sure about that since only Allah knows the entire truth), his actions were anything but.

Most Pakistanis have an irrational reaction to religion where everything is OK so long as the label “Islamic” is tacked on top of it. I won’t be surprised when some random Mullah says that rape is “Islamic” (may God forgive me for saying this) and the hyper crowds give such a person a standing ovation.

As far as social morals are concerned, how about the men here stop eyeing women passing by in public places as if they were some piece of meat which they are evaluating. That would be a first step towards improving social morals. After all, ‘honesty starts at home’!

And FTR, I was not aware your trolling on ATP extended to other blogs as well. Then again, you are just an amusing nuisance so keep up my amusement.

Urdu is a frustrating language, probably one of the few in the world where you can be ‘aap’ ‘tum’ or ‘tu’ to me, in descending order of respect. While such subtle nuances are great for poetry, I think it fails when it comes to unbiased reporting and scientific text. This is probably a big contributing factor to our failure as a nation in general. When I was a teenager, I used to hear the news about the pakistani ’shaheeds’ and the indian ‘halaaks’ at 9PM everyday, and while General Zia made sure that the 10 year old kids loved their army and continued doing so when they grow up (anyone remember the urdu textbooks with biographies of the nishan-e-haiders), I was fortunate enough to have access to a library and do some independent thinking, and such things have been bothering me ever since.
We have been trained in the last couple of decades to worship heroes, black and white classification of everything into good/bad evil/holy.
I wish we had a mother tongue where my brother, father, friend and grandfather were all addressed as ‘you’, everyone ‘died’ and there were was a ‘President’ instead of ‘Janab Sadar Pervaiz Musharraf Sahab’.
(Uh, I’ve strayed offtopic, but have already ranted enough here about this, so won’t repeat myself (much) again.

Sorry about the typos, I should be sleeping right now :|

It is all unfortunate. However, the sight of fully veiled girl ’students’ wielding lathis and dandas hardly did any good for the image of Islam and Muslims in the world.

So what did you want Indscribe, UN-veiled girls wielding lathis, or veiled girls not wielding lathis? Please be specific. This issue seems to be at the top of your concerns right now.

Let us not give a crap about our image in the eyes of the non-muslims, its obvious we won’t be converting millions of Jews and Christians to Islam any time soon. Let us instead be more concerned about our image in the eyes of god.

Now I’m wishing I was born in Iran, atleast they have balls.
(lets see if anyone notices the small ‘g’ and starts the god vs. God vs. Allah argument)

Asif, ignorance was always used as an excused by psuedo liberals like you. Awab is not my god that i gotta agree what he talks about. When you come up with a weak argument about illegal mosque then I just laugh at your ignorance. U should do some homework before you poke your nose on public forums. Masjid Ameer Hamza(RA) was a century old masjid and it was LEGAL according to CDA documents and it was mentioned several times in papers and programs but it was just demolished because it was being an obstacle in VVIP movement.

if exposing filth of pseudo enlightened like you is trolling then it’s very necessary these days. Go and hide yourself!

@Adnan
Why is the order an exceptional case ? Isn’t everything the Prophet does Sunnah? or did he explicitly tell us not to demolish mosques other than that particular instant?! His actions demonstrate that any mosque that harbours illegal activities and/or is based on illegal property is liable to be demolished. I am in no way defending the razing of other mosques which were legal, as you say. The whole argument about Ghazi and his antics inside Lal Masjid and why he is no shaheed.

Raza, instead of learning Islam from news channel, I would recommend you to read books then comment.

Regarding what is legal or what not, i already mentioned above. Also, your shaheed argument is baseless without any solid argument.

Which illegal activities? If stopping aunty shamim from doing filthy business is illegal then you should set one next to your door. Don’t give such argument which you can’t defend. Regardless of who is wrong or right, I do support their or anyones action against the filth of society, someone has to come forward to stop them.

Your govt claimed for mines,suicide bombers etc etc while we didn’t see anything like that. Neither any women was used as sheilf. What all I read by Ansar Abbasi that a resident of area found deadbodies of women and kids in a Nullah.What I saw that NaPak Army jawans were in masjid with boots. If I had turned the voice off then it would be different to compare whether I am watching some news about Iraq or Pakistan.

Go and read Dr Shahid’s article in todays Jang. It *might help you to come out from ignorance

As far as ghazi is concerned, he was shahed or not, was muslim or non-mulsim but he was sure man of his words. Something which even opponents of ghazi now admitting. while pervaiz on other hand is such a phatto that he bows infront of NATO when they attack within Border.

and again i say that nobody cares what you think whether one is shaheed or not while one could read Quran and Hadith himself. Go and read concerned books first then come and give your opinion.

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

ghazi is saheed or not, Allah (SWT) knows but when I saw his picture today on INternet, he would be burried in his own dress rather typical kaffan and what I have read in papers that Shaheeds are burried in same dress in which they fight and die because they will lift up in same dress and would be presented infront of Allah (SWT). So what Allah (SWT) decides for him, Allah (SWT) knows the best but so far it seems Allah (SWT) wants him to appear as Shaheed for the people of this world. Rest, Allah (SWT) knows the best.

Think again. Allah does not even use the word “shaheed” to mean “martyr”. Allah uses the word to mean “witness”. Allah Himself is a witness/shaheed (verse 4:79). Everyone, check out the usage of the word “shaheed” in the Quran.

Dr. Awab wrote:

A shaheed is a title that is given to a Muslim after his death, if he died during the fulfillment of a religious commandment.

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

ghazi is saheed or not, Allah (SWT) knows but when I saw his picture today on INternet, he would be burried in his own dress rather typical kaffan and what I have read in papers that Shaheeds are burried in same dress in which they fight and die because they will lift up in same dress and would be presented infront of Allah (SWT). So what Allah (SWT) decides for him, Allah (SWT) knows the best but so far it seems Allah (SWT) wants him to appear as Shaheed for the people of this world. Rest, Allah (SWT) knows the best.

Think again. Allah does not even use the word “shaheed” to mean “martyr”. Allah uses the word to mean “witness”. Allah Himself is a witness/shaheed (verse 4:79). Everyone, check out the usage of the word “shaheed” in the Quran.

From my standpoint, Ghazi was creating fasaad in the land. He was trying to countermand the rule of law, and create a fitna, regardless of his intentions. He is a faasiq. End of story. The soldiers who died trying to eradicate this fasaad/fitnah are the shuhuda.

Siddiqi, you are in denial despite my pointing out an example from the life of Holy Prophet (PBUH). By doing this, do you still consider yourself a Muslim?

Over the months, you seem to have developed some animosity towards me and my logically defended views. :D

Awab is nobody’s god but he is a respected member of the Pakistani blogosphere. What I was trying to do was to build a consensus of sorts at a small level where people present their views and try to convince others, with reason, to share a viewpoint. Nonetheless, what I did was just point out a little fact. Since it contradicts your thinking, Sunnah became unacceptable to you and you started whining, as is the usual case.

You tell Raza to read books. I ask you to read just the Quran and the Sahih Hadith books like Saheeh Bukhari and come back. If you truly understand them, you will be singing an entirely different tune then.

You say that Aunty Shamim did “filthy business”. Do you have any proof of this? Perhaps personal testimony? If mob opinion was factual proof, justice would be a dish best not served.

Ultimately, arguing with you has proven to be futile on numerous occasions in the past and I don’t intend to bow down to your whims and ideals, not now, nor any time in the future. As I have said numerous times before, the best we can do (and that is saying something) is to agree to disagree. Don’t expect me to reply to any more of your “same old” comments unless you post something of worth.

GHAZI ABDUL RASHEED IS SHAHEED coz He died only and only to impose sharia in pak.We say pak is an islamic state.Where is islam in it. Is it in heera mandi lahore.Is it in Chinese massage center r in the home of sick shameem. Is it in faisalabad where two girls marry. We r muslims just by name.F we see our whole system is like that of west.Look at the programes of PTV,ATV & many other paki Channels.Plz dont destroy ur Faiths by talking against the Great Aalims like ghazi sahib.

NOOR-E-KHUDA HAI KUFR KI HARKUT PE KHANDAZAN
PHONKO SE YE CHIRAGH BUJAYA NA JAY GA

ISLAM ZINDA BAAD

Asad, don’t change topic and answer my two questions.

1)if a state was established illegally and if we apply your moral rule of land grabbing then would you endorse to destroy such state.

2)what if a legal building is demolished. is it good? The masjid Hamza(RA) was a century old and it was demolished because it was disturbing VVIP movement. I am not from ISB but i heared it was near some CLUB road and it used to disturb ministers and president as they consider every namazi a terrorist.

Anwer them if you can otherwise don’t respond me and make yourself fool further.

regarding Aunty, go to concerned sectors and asked them. One of my office branch is in ISB and colleagues told me that aunty was influencial and DID run a brothel. For proof go to concerned thana you would get proof yourself.

you speak about proof, your dictator demolished a legal masjid and you didn’t bother to find out truth. There were no proofs about sucide bombers in madarssah hafsa, did u ask govt to give proof ? you just accepted them. Were women in madrassah used as sheilds? offcourse not and these are not my words, all news resources refuted govt claims, even Ejazul Haq admitted it. So don’t use things for your own interest, if you think you re credible then demonstrate it as well. don’t ask others to do somethngs which you ain’t cable yourself.

p.s: AWab is like my friend *nuff said*
p.p.s: Do answer my two questions otherwise don’t expect me to answer you.

Fahad, the “Quranist”, whatever the word is used by God, you understood what I wanted to say. Nobody is arguing whether shaheed is some arabic word,urdu or it does exist in Quran or not. Since the word is commonly used for certain kind of people who dies for certain cause, this is why all were using urdu wala shaheed here.

An mediocre article written by an equally mediocre person. Oversimplification is a dangerous fallacy and one should avoid that.

What the article is trying to say that an agressor is always at fault. Well what happend in the Battle of Badr? The Muslims went after the caravan of Abu Sufyan - The Meccans came to defend it. So?????????????????

Ghazi and Co. attacked businesses, and occupied a childrens library. Also the property of Jamia Hafsa was encroached upon. The army came to remove them.

Not that simple is it?

My religious knowledge is very limited, so I’ve been reading up on anything relevant that I could find on the question that is on every Pakistani’s mind these days to form an informed opinion.
I heard the concept of Dar-ul-Harb vs. Dar-ul-Islam being mentioned by the Lal Masjid people in many articles/interviews, and stumbled upon this illuminating and very relevant article a few minutes ago.

Please do read the complete article, titled A Muslim’s Nationality and His Belief

I’m accepting the conclusions I made from this article, i.e. Pakistan is Dar-ul-Harb, and that the ‘Burqa Brigade’ was/is right.
If anyone can ENLIGHTEN with a counter-argument, I’d be glad to change my point of view and convert to the ‘Sub say pehlay Pakistan’ camp.

Siddiqi:

1 - Depends upon a lot of factors.
2 - I have no problem if it was legally built. Nice try at changing the topic. A very Jewish tactic, if I say so myself. We are talking about Jamia Hifsa which was illegally built, an extension to Lal Masjid, not Masjid Hamza here.

LOL! I knew you were believing on here-say regarding Aunty Shamim… Meri khala kay chachay kay susar ki saas ka tai kay putar nay kaha tha… Now that’s credible! I am not one to believe “guilty until proven innocent”. There are courts and legal procedure. If that was not working, media was there to specifically highlight this thing. No peaceful means were used. Instead, the Lal Masjid terrorists kidnapped her and her family members. You again say “I heard”, which is doubtful at best regarding the place of the Hamza Mosque.

Consider you statement “you speak about proof, your dictator demolished a legal masjid and you didn’t bother to find out truth”. You say that Musharraf was responsible for this when the entire responsibility lies with CDA. It was CDA who tried to demolish the mosque, not Musharraf himself. City authorities do not need permission from the President to make decisions to manage the city. Does the city authority in Karachi calls on Musharraf each day to get permission for making bridges, opening drains, making water cleaning facilities, enhancing the sewerage system or similar other things? If not, then why do you think that CDA needs permission from Musharraf for everything?

CDA has been brought to court multiple times before by various people/groups and these groups have won many a time. Couldn’t the people who protested violently and raised havoc just file a case with the SC? It probably didn’t agree with their emotionally charged and disabled thinking regarding Islam.

The government is not a bunch of angels. However, it is very convenient to blame them to absolve yourself of guilt and responsibility. If everything is a responsibility of the government, what are we as the citizens of the country doing? Expecting a free lunch ?

PPS: I would not be honoured, nor will I feel insulted in any way if you answer with your meagre excuses again. To you the world is black and white when instead to me, it is in shades of grey.

Blaming is easy. Taking responsibility and stepping forward is the difficult path and we Pakistanis are known to take the easier path on numerous occasions. You just proved this.

Dr. Awab wrote: For a moment lets forget the political issues surrounding the crisis, coming to the root of the issue it was Ghazi Abdul Rashid who was defending the integrity of Islam challenging the ineffectiveness of the government in implementing the sharia law hence allowing a progressive degradation of our society. Without doubt Right or Wrong Maulana Shazi Abdul Rashid was defending his place of worship and was fulfilling his religious duties in this process.

Asad Asif wrote: I fully agree with the point that while Abdul Rasheed’s intentions might have been good (not sure about that since only Allah knows the entire truth), his actions were anything but.

The intentions of such people are also exposed in the “masjid zaraar” verse:

9/107: …and they swear “our intentions are good”. While God bears witness that they are liars indeed.

Asad Asif wrote:

Most Pakistanis have an irrational reaction to religion where everything is OK so long as the label “Islamic” is tacked on top of it. I won’t be surprised when some random Mullah says that rape is “Islamic” (may God forgive me for saying this) and the hyper crowds give such a person a standing ovation.

I agree. Most people do not use their senses to confirm if what is being called as “islamic” or “quranic” is really so. Hence their behavior is worse than that of cattle:

7/179: Many are the Jinns and men we have made for Hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle,- nay more misguided: for they are heedless (of warning).

25/44: Or thinkest thou that most of them listen or understand? They are only like cattle;- nay, they are worse astray in Path.

Dr. Awab wrote:

Considering the issue, I feel convinced that the sad demise of Ghazi Abdul Rashid should be labeled as a Shaheed and full respect offered to the body in regards to its proper dignified burial.

Ghazi Abdul Rasheed was a criminal like others with him, and he should be treated as such. He should be buried like his fellow criminals have been buried without receiving any special treatment. Or, the bigger the criminal, the better his treatment?

Dr. Awab wrote:

I hope that, you too, would join me in prayer hoping that Allah (SWT) would confer the title of Shahdat upon Shaheed Ghazi Abdul Rashid and grant him his deserved place in the life-here-after.

Mufsideen like Ghazi Abdul Rasheed do not even believe in the God and the hereafter:

2/8: Of the people there are some who say: “We believe in God and the Last Day;” but they do not (really) believe.
2/9: Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!
2/10: In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).
2/11: When it is said to them: “Make not mischief on the earth,” they say: “Why, we only want to make peace!”
2/12: Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not.

Just because they claim to believe in God and the hereafter does not make them believers. Their behavior is exposed in the Quran as that of mufsideen/mischief-makers. It is against such kafireen that God has commanded to fight.

Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

Fahad, the “Quranist”, whatever the word is used by God, you understood what I wanted to say. Nobody is arguing whether shaheed is some arabic word,urdu or it does exist in Quran or not. Since the word is commonly used for certain kind of people who dies for certain cause, this is why all were using urdu wala shaheed here.

Read my last post to see the cause such people die for.

abdur rashid gazi is shaheed.his shahdat will bring islamic inqilab.

Farhad
You sound like your ‘nabi’ Qadiani…. just manipulating Quran.

For that Masid which was ordered to be destroyed was built by ‘Yahud’ in order to divide the Muslims.

First of all that Masjid wasn’t destroyed out of love of KUFFAR.

It wasn’t destroyed because the builders of the Masjid were demanding for shariat.

It wasn’t destroyed because the builders of the Masjid were asking the ruler to follow Islam.

IT wasn’t destroyed so that porn would prevail.

Where as Lal Masjid was destroyed Just to earn $$$ from Kuffar.

i feel whatever happen is good for muslims, because know we are in the position to identify the hypocrates. these hypocrates are the biggest danger for islam atleast we can identify them, qatal hussain asal main marg e yazeed hey….. islam zinda hota hey har karbala key bad…
toaday i saw tears in my eyes while reading the article by Dr Shahid Masood on the lal masjid issue , after reading that i pray from Allaha that aey Allaha give respect to muslims and make them power over whole world as u promised.I know Allaha will listen me and the hypocrates like musharaff will be taken into justice.yes we are the moderate muslims .. yes we wanted to be free.. we need democracy… freedom to live

i can only say shame shame pakistan army.abdul rasheed ghazi insha allah ham tairay khoon ka badla zaroor lain gay insha allah

ab islami inqalaab zaida door naheen hai.sab loag apnay aap ko theek karain ore ghazi sahib kee tarah maidan e ammal main uttar jaen.ghazi sahib to 7 allah kay gharoan yani masajid kee doobara taameer ka mutalba kartay thay jinhain cda nay shaheed kar diya tha.woh to badkaaree kay adday khatam karnay ka mutalba kartay thay?kya yahee qasoor tha unka?woh to aimaan kay pehlay darjay par thay kay buraee ko haath say roaknay kee koshish kee.
ghazi sahib kee shahadat nay karbala kee yaad taaza kar dee.hazrat imam hussein nay beeh to yazeed kay aagay sar naheen jhukaya tha ore shahadat ko tarjeeh dee thee ore ghazi sahib nay beeh yahee kiyya ore unkay saathyoan nay beeh shahadat ko tarjeeh dee.hamaree pakistan army bayghairat army hai jis say kafroan say to lara nahenn jata ore apnay loagoan par goalee chalnay main shair hai.

Asad, that’s called actually TROLLING and IGNORANCE which you leftists also demonstrate.
When you have no idea how the all fuss got started then there is no point to argue with a person with no knowledge. Nobody changed topic. All fuss got started when seven masjids were demloished by Mush officials and Masjid Hamza was ONE of them which was legal. I advised you earlier go and maek a read and don’t fool out of yourself by participating withot knowledge.

Speaking of Aunty Shamim, Those BHANJAYS of aunty who are worried that people badmouthing their aunty,they should read this report. Aunty WAS involved in dirty things:
tinyurl.com/2ax4bv

alternative link:
http://kadnan.googlepages.com/jang.gif

But I know bhanjays like will keep cryin about it.

Now keep trolling kid by coming up lame arguments. Just remember that truth never lies and I know after the end of musharraf, all of your little things would hide in some bin. Tata

Muhajir,

You sound unable to back what you just wrote.

Like all human beings, Muslims are also of two kinds (I would like to write in roman Urdu) “Baa Shaoor” and “Bay Shaoor”. Instead of going in detail i would simply put few questions which will give all my readers a lime light.

1. When the dead body of holy prophet was waiting for funeral, there were two kinds of muslims. One who were holding Shoorah to decide who would be the Caliph now. They gave priority to decide the government instead of completing prophet’s (pbuh)funeral first (Their identity is that they are still after government all the time). Others for whom prophet (pbuh) was important completed funeral and did not care for government snaching. (Both the parties were Kalmah Goh)

2. In Karbalah there were two kinds of Muslims. One who were killing innocent prophet’s (pbuh)family. Others who were being martyred. (Both were Kalmah Goh)

2. After the death of holy prophet Muslims immediately divided in two groups who were so opposite to each other that they fought a battle even (Jange Saffeen). There is no reason in the world to declare two opponents correct at a time but Mullahs claim that both were right because both were Kalmah Goh.

So if your criteria is also to support people on the basis of only reciting Kalmah, you decide in which group you are, Baa shaoor or Bay shaoor.

Any body who try to hide this my mail keep in mind that these are the questions Muslims will be asked at the day of Judgement. Its always better to be prepared before someone ask you a question.

In Qura’an it is written that MOhammad(PBUH) was asked to lead and pray in masjid e zarrar. Wahee revealed that the only reason mosque was built was to create prejudice(inteshaar)against muslims and that Moahmmad(PBUH) should destroy masjid e zarrar. And so it was done…
Nowadays all the mosques in the world are practicing prejudice against each other. Are they not similar to Masjid e zarrar?

‘degrading morals of our society’ - Does any one care to know “WHY” he took this stance NOW? Was it not the same TWO years ago? Where was he back then?

Reason is simple, HE feared his MADRASSAH was built on GOVERNMENT land too, illegal for him so he starts the whole thing… Someone said he was man of his words, please proof this. Was he not the one who talked about KHUDKUSH HAMLE as aakhri harba against Government if Government’s aakhri harba was OPERATION?

I do feel sad for the lost of innocent lives inside, the women and children that is not Rashid Ghazi or other armed men inside. Rashid Ghazi was only doing this for his ‘OWN’, no one else or the country.

This same place has been used for ‘extremist’ activities in the past with support of the intelligence agencies against another sect.

Dear Teeth Maestro ,Raza and Asad who is funafiq u and we all know, a munafiq can not b a person who speak out for islam, Allah and shariat and not only speak they proved by fight till death, than open ur eyes for difference of munafqeen…munafiq is our gov and munafiq is our President Musharaf not those people who prefered death rather living in no-muslim counrty which was made in the name of Allah and making laws agaist Islam and quarnic laws.

Answer me y gov is not implementing shariah law??

Ghazi abdul Rashid and his companions all are shaheed and all amry guys are halak ther is no doubt about it……..

Dear ‘teeth maestro’, please allow me to congratulate you on your stance about the issue at hand. It is indeed comforting to be in the company of those whose viewpoint we share.

The July 10 massacre at Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafza at the hands of Pak Army has left me so badly scarred emotionally that I might never completely recover. In the profession I was trained - medicine - death and its many faces is no stranger to me. A Psychiatrist and avid reader of human nature, I’m also all too familiar with the violence man, the most territorial of species, is capable of unleashing on its own kind when he wants to assert his power. But nothing I was trained for or nothing I read could have prepared me for what unfolded on 10 July, 2007 on my TV screen.

I sat stunned and totally numb as image after image hammered on my retina the devastation let loose on structures built in Allah’s name where children and women in the thousands had been reported to be confined. Many of these women and children had been rendered orphans in the earthquake that had shaken the very foundations of this country a handful of months ago.

This time around however, it wasn’t nature that let loose its fury upon helpless humans. This time it was the uniformed henchmen of a dictator whose mercilessness annihilated more than the brick and mortar of God’s house. It killed more than a thousand women and children besides murdering hundreds of rasikh-ul-aqeeda momineen whose methods even I did not agree with but whose struggle was for a cause only an infidel would refute.

I for one have never been too fond of the mullahs of this country and their ranting about establishing an Islamic state in Pakistan. They, in my view, were, are and will forevermore be all ineffective and weak. Their ineffectiveness has led the common man to be weary of them and eventually be weary of Islam.

And then I sat through the live transmission of the week long siege of the seminary in Islamabad. I saw and heard its firebrand naib-khateeb, Abdul Rasheed Ghazi who looked and sounded nothing like a typical molvi one prefers to run a mile from. He was forceful in elocution but wasn’t scary like his counterparts who menacingly spew warnings of doomsday scenario of every kind. Abdul Rasheed Ghazi exuded a charm that bordered on the charismatic. It was clear even to a casual observer that he truly believed in what he said and that his charisma made his belief in his struggle very infectious.

I have for the longest time not been a practicing Musalman in any sense of the word ‘practicing’. In particular it’s been almost a decade that I haven’t said my prayers. So on the eventful morning of July 10, when at 4:00 am death started to loom large over the ill-fated mosque and madrisah, and I spread the prayer mat and cried buckets in the sajda, I knew Ghazi sahib had passed on his infection to me through the airwaves. I know deep inside that I believed in what he believed.

As I prayed hard to Allah, I knew death will not rest until it had taken its toll on the occupants of Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafza. I knew it the moment the jaiyalay jwan of the glorious Pak army stormed the masjid’s compound at the heels of 200 earth shattering blasts. I knew it was futile to pray for the safety of the stranded children, women and men. They had clearly been marked for death. So I prayed hard that Allah grant them the courage to fight hard as they could, that when they died, Allah eased for them the pain of death and that once dead, Allah raised their darajat of shahdat.

And as I prayed for the unfortunate souls facing the might of an army formidable only to its own citizens, I felt I somehow became connected to them. Every bead of rosary I counted in prayer, joined me in a bond with the thousands that were fighting not for their lives, but for the glory of death. I felt I lived a thousand lives that day. I believe I died a thousand deaths that night.

I have read the many responses on this forum and am not surprised at the way liberal extremists here have lanced at Ghazi sahab. The hot arguments of firebrand believers seldom melt the cold intellect of the left wing secularists. Ghazi sahib must have realized that towards the end himself. Few out there really believed in his cause. The people of Pakistan today worship idolaters of Bollywood. Allah and his deen are no longer a part of their equation evident from the scores of responses on TV that day. Media took on the role of the negotiator whose reporters diligently kept trying to talk him into giving up the men and women we all now know he was never holding as hostages [http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=8972]. Even when he told them his mother had been shot and that he could see her breathing her last, no reporter implored those running amuck in the echelons of power to show some mercy. The blood thirsty army dictator wanted to rid himself of Islamaists who were a threat to the soft image of his Pakistan and to his enlightened moderation. The government functionaries, the rubber stamps of the dictator, ran like messenger boys between the mosque and the GHQ trying to negotiate a deal no one really wanted to go through. The ulema fought over the custody of the ruins of Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafza. Ejaz ul Haq broke into sweat when invited to go into the madrasha he today weeps over. Sherpao, the PPP secular liberalist fought hard to sanction the bloody operation for which he had full support of the MQM. Here, on this forum I see all these people represented. The people have spoken. Operation ‘Silence’ is long since over. The silence of the shaheed is no less than deafening.

Those of you who think Musharraf is not directly responsible for the heinous crime he has committed against thousands of children and women; I have only one thing to say. When you tread upon the constitution of your country and stage a coup against a democratically elected government, when you amend the constitution time And time again to perpetuate your reign of terror, when you side with terrorists like the MQM, call them allies and justify their terrorism as a show of force, when you brand Islamsits as terrorists and have them murdered in the house of god then you ARE responsible for unleashing violence on your kind. You are to whom the buck stops with.

I read with bafflement responses on this forum with regards to “mosques constructed on illegally occupied land” [Asad, Raza]. Wow! In a country where whole islands are being forcefully evicted of their inhabitants and allocated to building holiday resorts or high-rise buildings, a few hundred yards of land taken over to build a place of worship or Islamic learning is scorned upon by your lot. In a country where thousands of acres of land is allocated to non-Muslims right smack in the middle of a bustling metropolis for the token money of rupee 1 [the Aga Khan Hospital, Karachi] a few hundred yards of land taken over to build a place of worship is scorned upon by your lot. In a country where the army grabs hold of land at will [Military Incorporated by Dr. Ayesha Siddiqua] to build lavish housing schemes for army men, a few hundred yards of land taken over to build a place of worship is scorned upon by your lot.

Legality of a mosque in a country where the very legality of the government in power is questionable bears little weight. ‘The New Land Mafia’ by Abdul Naeem, August 31, 2004, is an article that looks into the army’s land grabbing exploits, a page that has now been removed by the site’s owner for reasons we all understand, a page that is now accessible through its cashed document on google through the following link: [The New Land Mafia @ Chowk.com via Google Cache] Read how the army is using torture and brutal force all over the country for owners of pricy land to hand the land over to them.

I thank you [phir s] for giving voice to my thoughts so beautifully. I thank you [Adnan Siddiqui] for your thoughts echo my own. And I thank you [ReallyVirtual] for the link to the article ‘A Muslim’s Nationality and His Belief’. It is an eye opener. It says it in so many words what Abdul Rasheed Ghazi shed his blood to reiterate. I am not surprised that none of the trolls busy engaging us in worthless debates have actually bothered to remark on the position this article takes because none of them would be able to defend their liberal extremist ideology against the article without crossing the line that separates us from the infidels.

An eye for and eye, so says Allah. And justice will have to be served one day. Justice will be served the day when Musharraf’s mother is shot in front of his eyes and he sits there with her grey haired head in his lap, feeling her frail body struggle for breath, feeling the cold of death slide gradually on the woman who had given him life. And when she breaths her last, a grenade is fired on him, its shrapnel slicing through his throat leaving him barely alive to feel every bullet that slices through the body of his beloved daughter Ayla, whose burning corpse he sees turn into ash before death pierce through his uniformed body. That day the shaheed of Lal Masjid and Jamai Hafza would have been avenged. And people like me would have at last found peace.

In the end there is a request I would like to make to all of you who believe that Abdul Rasheed Ghazi died the death of a shaheed. For whatever it was worth, Ghazi Sahib was fighting for a cause no musalman can argue against. That his method was questionable is a debate that should be laid to rest for he paid with his life for that adopting that method.
Hours before he died, in his last telephonic conversation with the media, Ghazi sahib implored to the nation to keep struggling for the implementation of Shariah Laws in Pakistan. Implementation of the Shariah laws as sanctioned in the constitution of Pakistan is a mammoth task under the present circumstances. Musharraf with his overt agenda of ‘enlightenment’ and so-called ‘moderation’ is never ever going to let Shariah laws come in his way of putting Pakistan in the bracket of ‘moderate’ nations. We as a nation need to take baby steps towards forcing Musharraf to take a back track on his enlightenment policy. Most of us do not wish to see a fundamentalist Pakistan headed by bearded mullahs who curb our basic human rights at the drop of a hat. But we also do not wish to see a morally corrupt Pakistan where contraceptive ads are openly aimed at unmarried young men and women [Touch], where billboards of a wine-making concern herald captions like “me and my big apple” splashed across a busty woman [Karachi], where prostitutes are allowed to run their business under government protection [Aunty Shamim et al] where actresses are officially glorified for doing semi-pornographic films in neighboring countries [Meera], where hand-picked women ministers embrace and kiss non-Muslim men in the name of collecting charity [Neelofur Bakhtiar], where allegedly homosexuals women are made governors of state institutions [Governor State Bank] and homosexual men are given army protection for helping arrange congregations of the wicked weekly [Dansih Tapal], where formation of syllabus of basic education is given in the hands of non-muslims, where new skyscrapers are planned to light up the skyline but where century old mosques are demolished because they harden the soft image of Pakistan in the west.

That is what we should be looking at rather than taking the bait of trolls like [Asad Asif] and wasting our energies in letting them engage us in pointless rhetoric. People like him throw our way carefully engineered arguments that ask us to justify our beliefs to him that need to measure up to the yardsticks of his paradigm.

And no matter how hard you try and prove your point, he and his lot will never see things from the viewpoint of a rasikh-ul-aqeeda muslman. Victory over the likes of him can only be achieved by throwing the crumbs of your inattention at them, by letting their hollow words fall flat in the wilderness of their own trolling, and for like minded people to come together and do our bid in helping build the true image of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

I think that every 1 including people in power should be more sensible and behave as humans…..No 1 is goin to be happy…U pray & you live happy life is what good expects from every 1….At the end of the day people talk big and they go and get themselves killed but are they doin what god expects from them?????
This is stupidity….Grow up my friends and live a beautifull life like a pure water.

Great! For simply expressing my view, I am now termed as ‘Munafiq’ while Ghazi is elevated to the status of a hero. I am in no way saying that I agree with the manner the operation was carried out, all I said was that the stance Ghazi took was wrong and he was personally responsible for the lives of each and every individual inside that compound, so in a way he deserves double the blame. I guess my point was Ghazi got what he had coming to him. As for your justification of grabbing land in order to build a mosque, my friend you cannot justify one wrongdoing with another … especially for such supposedly holy purpose.

Adnan, you keep going back to Masjid e Hamza issue when I am in agreement with you over that. The whole discussion is about holding people up in Lal Masjid and using it as a center to resist and challenge the government and threatening to run chaos (read fidai) rampant. There may be a lot wrong going on behind the scenes, and the govt. may have ulterior motives behind this action (especially the timing of it) but as a matter of principle and of right/wrong .. Ghazi cannot be right in my view and should not be termed as `shaheed`.

What is wrong with challenging the goverment?
The goverement challanges Allah.
Are you saying for you the govrement is higher than Allah?

Why are you a Muslim?
Muslim is some one who submits to the will of Allah not the will of goverments.
There is no obediance to teh creation in disobediance to Allah

People can claim to be Muslim. But are they Muslim?

I think the terms Muslim and shaheed is being confused.

Some are shaheed for Allah and others are shaheed for chinese prostitutes and America and isreal.

Only one of them can go to heaven. Which Allah decides not you

One thing which is very clear is that Mullahs are not extremist instead the example of extremism is set by the Army, inshAllah they will soon pay for that, How can they use WP, I would forcefully say that Musharaf and government officials shall be trialed on using WP.

I guess it is not an easy task to give life for the cause. I slute Ghazi for his shahdat for the cause of Islam .. we hv just put a label of Muslims but in reality we dont obey allah / his book Quran.. May Allah show ur the right Path ….. Amin

Shahadat depends upon the intent in heart. The Lal Masjid issue, and the events occured after it are very complex and shrouded.

Lt. Col. Harun ul Islam was indeed shaheed.

His death testified that There is no God but Bush and Musharraf is the messanger of Bush.

How can one justify the occupation of a children’s library which has no link with any unislamic activity, kidnapping of a woman without giving her right to prove her innocence, attack on CD shops and forcing them to shut down without providing any alternative means to earn for their families, kidnapping of policemen as a revenge of arrest of some of their colleagues, setting up parallel courts within a state against the laws of that state, kidnapping of chinese without any proof and without filing any complaint with any local government authority against any illegal activity, snatching arms and equipments from security personnels, firing and killing security personnels, damaging and burning, public and private property, keeping arms and amuntion in a mosque for no apparent reason, not laying arms and firing at security persoonel during the leninecy period of 5 full days, keeping some of the people in Mosque without their consent and endagering their lives (also many of them got killed and without any prosumably), going back on his words again and again during the negotiations and last not least, painting a very bad picture in the eyes of non-muslims about the Islam, which itself is a huge loss to Islamic teachers and the institutions

Everyone saw Abdul Aziz getting caught in Burqa keeping in mind the fact that he was asking his students to get ready for jihad and shahadat. He and Abdul Rasheed had the same view point which Abdul Rasheed was also justifying in one of his interview.

Everone knows that at the end, Abdul Rasheed wanted to surrender and leave everything, even his demand for islamic system in return for a safe passage.

Moral corruption in pakistani society has not started ovenight or in the last 5 months. What was they thinking in the last so many years or should i say decades and why didn’t they protest earlier against unislamic values in the society. No one can deny that Islam can not be imposed by force. If the majority in our society is corrupt, then there is no justification to take law in your hands. One should first show through his examplary attitude and prove to other people that what true Islam is and how can we improve our lives by implementation of Shariah laws in the true sense. If we majority agrees with your view point, then you do what you want to do. Be good Muslim, Preach Islam, Convince others to follow Islam and when you are in majority, bring the laws, which you want to follow. Even then, minorities should have all the right to live peacefully and enjoy freedom of their religious within the boundaries set by majority through demacratic means.

ghazi was smiling after he was shaheed .subhan ulllah

http://daily.urdupoint.com/gallery.php?picId=6054&page1=1&date1=2007-07-22

hey another thing we dont need the americans to do any more, we can desecrate Qurans ourselves..

Mush taking us to selfreliance

ghazi abdul rashid is shsheed

maulana abdul rasheed ghazi shaheed sahib rehmat ullah is truly a shaheed.he was a great person to stand against all unislamic things. May ALLAH ALMIGHTY shower upon him all of his blessings.He will be remembered by those forever who knew him and loved him.
andhairoun kay muqabil aftab aaya hi kartay hain.
bashar jo dat jae to inqilaab aaya hi kartay hain

if somebody is a terrorist its musharaf.not ghazi sahib.musharaf is a qadiani.did u know. how can he let islam being followed.the operation was nothing else than a conspiracy,a sabotage against true muslims and ghazi brothers.and one sign of ghazi sahib`s greatness is that even now beautiful scent is coming from his grave.subhaan allah.

“Islam zinda hota ha har karbala ky baad” we can found many similarities of karbala in this action. Now Foojies are not our “spahies” they are working as very cheep butchers for TAGOOT.

shaheedoun ka khoon rang zaroor layay ga.
musharaf`s real side will come in front of all very soon.
if once an agreement took place between the leaders and ministers,then why was there any need to go to the president house.and everything was changed.army came coz the primeminister asked it to as a chief executive then why was sharfu interepting.it was a planned thing.no doubt all the men,women and children are shaheeds.abdul rasheed ghazi zindabad

One simple question: Are suicide bombers also shaheed? even if the suicide bombing is for a religious cause.

No one argues the noble work, which Ghazi Sahib may have done during his life time but at the same time we should have the courage to denounce the wrong actions either by Ghazi Sahib or anyone else.

I respect the opinion of every individual but how can we decide who is Shaheed or Halaak. These things are to be judged by ALLAH because he knows everything. SUch discussions can easily devide a nation because everyone could have different opinion based on the knowledge available with him.

Good point Ordindary Pakistani, we probably don’t even know the “inside stuff” as they call it of this whole issue. Whether he is a `shaheed` or `halaak`, there can be no denying the fact that innocent people got killed and more importantly, the Army was used against its own people which can only have bad repercussions (as we are seeing). The situation overall is extremely worrying, no one is safe anywhere in Pakistan now (esp. NWFP). God knows how dire situation will become.

Mushharraf has an objective of razing off everything that sounds like Islam. His ambitions are all derived from the “US led war on Islam”. Ghazi’s methods should have been more refined and sensibly crafted, but his objective was right. With so much obscenity, vulgarity and immoral activities going on in our society these days, our blood realy boils too at the present military regime’s outrageous anti-Islamic policies. But we all are practicing is Sabr…. We are sure that the time will come when we all will rise and defend our values and Deen, with the power of Allah behind us. These Liberal elemants are having a tax-free holiday in Musharraf’s regime but Allah will strike on them soon, the believers dont worry they are praying and watching for Allah’s Judgement and eventuality.

I think you are belongs to Fiqa i Jafria

Raza…i agree with you that the situation in Pakistani is very bad and inncocent civilins and security personnels are dying without any objective reason.
First question should be: who is doing this and what are their objectives. Every ordinary pakistani would say without doubt that the people behind this are not muslims and definitely terrorist. They want to destabilize pakistan and indirectly or directly helping those non-muslim powers who want Pakistan to act according to their wishes otherwise these people will continue to harm Pakistan.

Now the question is what an ordinary pakistani should do in this situation? Should he protest and ask Government to step down. The situation today in Pakistan is definitely have its root causes resulting from mainly from the acts of the current government, however some blame is to be shared by previous governments. Religious extermism, availability of weapons across the country, poor performance of security agencies, increasing poverty, widening gap between poor and rich, no or limited education and knowledge availability and many other causes, which are compounding over the last few decades. We elect these people knowing that they are thieves and will not solve our problems only due to lack of education and knowledge. we dont want to think and follow others who think negatively.

An ordinary pakistani should show solidarity with fellow pakistanis and act against all those elements who preach hate, who tell us that America is evil power but their children study there, who are against army rule but negotiate deals with them, who tell poor followers to fight against unislamic rule by killing innocent countrymen and bombing in public places including mosques and schools.

I am not in any way supporting the current regime but i think that that this is not right to blame government for all the suicide bombings and rocket attacks and at the same time justifying these acts as a repercussions of acts by our government or our army.

I am also sad due to deaths of inncocent people in Lal Masjid incident and also on 12 May incident but it doesn’t mean that i should start killing other pakistanis and challenge the writ of the state in order to wage war (which they call jihad) against the government, which as per these elements is unislamic.

I know one thing that Islam has not spread through sword and Quaid-e-Azam had not shot any bullet in order to establish Pakistan.

Shaheed tum se ye keh rehey hain, by Abdul Rasheed Ghazi

Witnesses demand from you “Think of us, forget us not”
march forward and do not excuse these assasins of God lovers
These assassins have cut throats, legs and hands of your sisters brothers and sons,
Do not let them run, catch them by the neck and do the same with them that they have done with God’s dear ones
We are dying for God, be witness to this.
These cruel people do not even consider the hunger and thirst of children who have not taken anything for days.
The breasts of mothers inside the mosque are dried, they can not feed their innocents.
We are dying, remember us
and remember the courage and bravery we are showing to save the name and grandeur of God
You must follow us to meet us in heaven
And it is only if you die saving protecting the grandeur of God and Prophet Mohammad.
Remember us: we are dying to give you life and respect and to protect our faith.

(a friend translated this poem, composed and sung by Maulana Abdul Rasheed Ghazi at Lal Masjid. I asked my friend to do this translation so that Westerners like me who do not understand Urdu can stop and reflect rather than hastily classify what happened at Lal Masjid according to the cliches of the media. But I also asked him because the decision of the government to bury
the persons who died at Lal Masjid giving witness of their faith in mass graves is a profanation of their memory, of the rights of their relatives and friends to mourn them according to their faith, and of human dignity. This poem expresses what they died for, and we all - Muslims and not - owe it to their memory to try to understand it.

As to the use of “witness” to translate “Shaheed”: this is my only interference. My friend would have prefered “martyr”, at first. But in western languages, the understanding of “martyr” is influenced by the fact that the first christians martyrs died convinced that the second coming of the Messiah was imminent, that it would put an end to this world, and that life on earth was therefore of little or no worth: this is why the first christian “martyrs” could see the ridiculous indignity of being eaten by lions for the amusement of the emperor and the people as a way to bear witness to God, for instance. And this contempt of life associated with “martyr” in christian cultures is completely wrong for the persons who also died at Lal Masjid “to give us life and respect”. So in the end my friend accepted the translation of “shaheed” by “witness”) .

I can only hope that common sense should prevail and poeple can see straight and understand the things themselves rather than using the eyes and minds of other people to think.

Claude….which western country you are from? I am surprised that even the non-muslims are crying and saluting Ghazi Sahib with so much conviction. Instead of Ghazi Sahib and other criminals, we should feel sorry and pray for those innocent people including students who were not involved in these matters but got killed due to cross fire between the two parties. Would you be comfortable with the thought that a group of religious students headed by their teacher in your country do the same as they have done in Islamabad (illegal encroachment, illegal occupation of a children’s library, kidnapping of a woman, policemen, foreigners (Chinese), attack on businesses, setting up parallel courts, keeping arms in the religious seminary, snatching arms and equipments from policemen, firing and killing security personnel, damaging and burning public and private property and at the end not surrendering and keeping some of the people in Mosque without their consent and endangering their lives). If you belive in the acts of Ghazi Sahib (as you said that it gave you life and respect), then you would definitely appreciate the acts of 9/11, where more than 3,000 innocents lost their lives for no reason.

The poem above does not reflect what Ghazi Sahib die for. Rather it incites people to take revenge and fight against the rule of law. What is your motive to spread this hate message?

How are you so sure that people died in this incident have been buried in mass graves. Are you not playing in the hands of media and without any solid evidence playing with our feelings.

Molana Abdul Rasheed Ghazi is shaheed and Pak-amry personals are Halak.

ABDUL RASHEED GHAZI SHAHEED was and is our nations hero.he become example for all muslims in our nation.we r proud that he is shaheed for a good cause(islam).if we compare ourself with all the students of jamia hafsa and abdul rasheed ghazi
then we examin that we r not true muslims..inshahallah his shahadat is not becomes lose for us….amin..!

Please rather than to speak its better to not only think but should have some knowledge..you people donot know that according to pakistan law you can make masjid at government land but not at personal..so tgis land was authorized to educational insititute and unfortunately when a institute couldnt be made till 6 years then mr zia dedicated this land to mr abdullah gazhi..and it was alloted and after him again now itd started disscussion..and according tolaw if that is government property then too they cant fell it…and for your very kind information…..masjide zarar was occupied by munafiqin (see mirror to see munafiq) and those munafiqin hadnt any quranic page even and they didnt teach any islamic revolution..they just made concipiracy against islamto vanish islam not like mr abdul rashid gazhi shaheed , who wanted to save islam from those people who are used to go to pimp houses(see miror again)

[>>>How are you so sure that people died in this incident have been buried in mass graves. Are you not playing in the hands of media and without any solid evidence playing with our feelings]

I take it that by raising suspicion about the dead having been buried in ‘mass graves’ you are attempting to cast a doubt over the high death toll claimed by those who don’t claim solidarity with the uniformed dictator. First of all it is not JUST the media that reported the huge number of men, women and children who were mercilessly killed by the Jawans of Pak army on 10, June 2007. Members of the media were in fact to be ‘shot on sight’ by the orders of the Pak army if they as much as approached any of the many hospitals where 20 buses with shuttered down windows, numerous ambulances and the many armored vehicles time and again rushed the dead and injured.

There are many from the civil society, the parliament and the ranks of military who have assented that the death toll of the operation ‘Silence/Sunrise’ is very high indeed. General (Retd.) Mirza Aslam Baig, an ex- Chief of the Army Staff, is not a name you don’t bracket with the most influential figures in the country whose insight into matters of national concern draws from the inside information someone is his position has. In one of his recent interviews to an Urdu Daily [Ummat, issue: 30, July, 2007 - page 3] he made the following statement to one of the questions posed [and I translate verbatim]: “The kind of force used is out-and-out deplorable. ‘Flame Throwers’ were used so that if there were fifteen girls in a room they all got burnt [by the flame]. ‘Flame Thrower’ is a weapon an army fires into the enemy bunkers through a hole/vent that lets air in to make sure that everyone inside is burnt alive… debris inside the Jamia Hafza had been so [callously dumped] that soon as someone scratched the surface of the wreckage, they hit a human bone, blood stained clothes, or everyday stuff used by children. This [irrevocably] proves that it was a vast number who were rendered shaheed [during the attack].”

Before this, the army has admitted using White Phosphorus during operation Silence/ Sunrise. Aijazul Haq, the damned minister himself admitted that “White Phosphorus” had indeed been used against those barricaded in the Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafza. And we are all witness through live TV coverage to the continuous and heavy artillery attacks that rocked Islamabad throughout the days of siege.

Only Musharraf’s minions could rationalize for flame throwers, white phosphorus and heavy artillery shelling to have been used for neutralizing 250 odd men their leader claim to have killed during the attack. Only they would accept on blind faith the death toll given by those whose soldiers callously dumped pages upon pages of Allah’s holy book in an open sewerage line [May Allah forgive us for sitting idly and nitpicking on the issue of this desecration of the Quran and not setting out to beat the hell out of those responsible for this sacrilege act].

Circulating in various government and non-government circles, the conservative estimate of the number of innocent women and children killed in the Jamia Hafza and Lal Masjid massacre is somewhere around 2200. These innocent people were massacred and their bodies were dumped somewhere out of sight. Reported in Ummat [issue 31 July, 2007 – Page 8] is two pieces of news that give insight into that number. According to one piece of news, when during the parliamentary session, members of the opposition repeatedly referred to the dead in the army operation on Lal Masjid operation as being in the thousands, none of the members of the ruling coalition raised a point of objection to it or stood up to contradict it. In the same session, a petition was filed with the Speaker to have an independent commission be set up to investigate the disappearance of “2200 to 2300 female students during the attack on Jamia Hafza”.

dear all, Jamia hafza main army nay fasforas bomb painkay hain jin say iron b pigal jata hay insan tuinsan hay.. and they were not 22 to 2300 they were more than 2800 in side. mari cousins wahan theen woh b parhateen theen un kay mutabiq tu round about 3000 talbat aur talibelam wahan thay jab woh log nikleen wahan say tu aur un logon kaybahad tu koi 50 log aur bahar aey hain not more than this.. ghalib imkan hay 2800-3000 bachay, khawateen aur larkay wahan shaheed huay hain…

dusri bat ab b agar koi government ya army ka sath daita hay tu mujay hairat hoti hay keh woh khud ko muslaman kesay keh sakta hay. munafeen ki yahee tu nishani hay keh jab kurbani ka time ata hay tu peechay hat jata hay.. Mulana Gazi sb shaheed ki tarha kay muslman hain abi mojjood aur un he logon ki waja say yeh dunya b baqi hay warna tu Allah ka kanoon aur Allah ka ghazab bhut sakhat hay….. ham sab jantay hain….

Mari tu dua hay keh Allah es army ko aur es government kay har banday ko bata day keh asal badshah whohi hay aur us nay abi tak zalmon ki rasi lambi ki hui thi… Ameen…..

Dear Haq….I am not at all justifying the deaths of innocent people during this operation. But there is no solid evidence that around 2200 people have died in this incident. If so many people have died and everything is so obvious with so many indications, then why is anyone not going to court?
Secondly, when it was repeatedly announced for continuously five days that people inside should come out and they will not be harmed, then what is the justification of anyone still hiding inside (that also in such large numbers). At the same time, how can you justify armed men in a mosque (everyone saw men with gas masks and guns in their hands at the roof top. Is it a true picture of Islam?). Who killed the rangers personnel at the start of this incidence and Army has not killed 10 of their own men. Most of the people say that Ghazi Sahib’s methods were wrong but his objective was right, therefore he is Shaheed. I cant comment in whether he is shaheed or Halak as Allah knows the best but i only have to say one thing that is it justified to committ a crime even it is for a noble cause.

These cospiracy theories will continue forever same like 9/11 because in such cases, an ordinary person cant have the complete truth so we should try to accept and spread onlt that information, which is true and is supported by proper evidence.

Dear Saadia……Pakistan army is not consist of Aliens. These are pakistanis and they are not all from ruling family family. Majority of them are family members of ordianry pakistanis. If an error has been committed by an officer or commander, we cant blame the whole organization. If we curse them, then ultimately we are cursing millions of Pakistanis. Army as an organization will have problems, no doubt because social and moral corruption in pakistan will be reflected in all its institutions whether public or private.

I have one question for all those who are now crying for Ghazi Sahib and his noble cause: where were all these people before and during the lal masjid incidence. If they support Ghazi Sahib’s actions, they should have helped him and given their lives along with Ghazi Sahib. What had happened to them and their beliefs at that time. Why Ghazi Sahib’s own brother escaped in burqa. Why didn’t he fight along with other people when he was always preaching jihad and shahadat to his students. What was they thinking in the last so many years or should i say decades and why didn’t they protest earlier against unislamic values in the society. Only when government asked them to remove illegal encroachment from government land, they started acting like this.

[>>>If you belive [sic] in the acts of Ghazi Sahib (as you said that it gave you life and respect), then you would definitely appreciate the acts of 9/11, where more than 3,000 innocents lost their lives for no reason.]

Interestingly, imploring in your post that your feelings not be played with over incidents cited by the local media regarding the death toll of the military operation in Lal Masjid without proof, you mention in the same breath the 9/11 attacks for which to this day the US government has not been able to offer any concrete evidence proving involvement of external elements including Muslim Arabs..

What happened on 9/11 was an atrocious event orchestrated by the US government against its own citizens [just as they did in Pearl Harbor] to perpetuate its agenda of waging a crusade against Islam. That is NO LOBGER CONSIDERD JUST A CONSPIRACY THEORY…three out of four Americans now firmly believe that it was the US government itself that clandestinely staged the coming down of the twin towers on September the eleventh. Please refer to the following links and read for yourself. [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=435265&in_page_id=1811&in_page_id=1811&expand=true] [http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20060405112622982]

And what defies logic completely is that how to you is the US government-staged terrorist “act of 9/11” analogous to what you have referred to as “acts of Ghazi Shaheed”? The terrorist “act of 9/11” was conspired by the Bush administration for it to lead to set of calculated events that would help the US government curb the growing influence of Islam in the world, protect Israeli interests in the Middle East, take control of the vast fossil fuel reserves of the Muslim world and to keep a check on the emerging world economy, China? The toppling of the twin towers led to the death of [and having gone missing] 2,997 American civilians. Since then the US and coalition led “Operation Enduring Freedom,” Pentagon’s public-relations name for its war on terror has caused deaths of 832962 and seriously injuring1590895 in Afghanistan and in Iraq. Which means 277 times as many Afghans and Iraqis have been killed in the war on terror than the 2,997 killed or missing in on 9/11. More than 16 times as many Afghans and Iraqis have been killed than every person killed in all terrorist attacks worldwide since 1968. [http://www.unknownnews.net/casualties.html]

Please enlighten us how from your standpoint are 832962 deaths, 1590895 injured, complete destruction of the infrastructure of two countries, violation of human rights in Guantanamo Bay and Al Ghraib prison comparable to “acts” of Ghazi Shaeed? You seem very good at posing questions. Try answering one.

What Ghazi Shaheed advocated, what you call his “acts”, and was killed for and what happened on 9/11 are incidents related only through the repercussions of the crusade led by a Christian coalition on Islam and supported by liberal extremists amongst the ranks of Muslims.

Dear Haq

Interestingly, you have changed the topic and discussion, which were having. Kindly note that in my earlier message, I didn’t put the blame of 9/11 incident to any party. Also, i have not favoured any of America’s acts either in Iraq or Afghanistan. I dont know where all of a sudden it has come from? For most of us it is very easy to link everything to America, Israel or Jews and blame them for everything rather than looking at our errors, wrong judgements and degrading morals.

The point i was trying to make here was that any wrong acts of anybody should not be justified only because these acts were carried out as a retaliation of something or they were towards a noble cause. Wrong is wrong and it does not become right because intentions were good.

If you agree that i am good at posting questions, then try finding the answers of these questions so that things become more clear, which will help definitely in making right judgements and decisions.

One question which i repeat here: Why, at the end, Ghazi Sahib wanted to surrender and leave everything, even his demand for islamic system in return for a safe passage. Now dont tell me that this is one side of picture. We heard it on TV and we heard it from other respectable maulanas and alims who were involved in these negotiations.
Kindly note that i am not at all justifying the way, army action has been carried out.

There are numerous reports in the media about Ghazi grave having a perfume smell. A couple of days ago at the graduation cerenomy at Jamia Usmania in lahore I met two people who swore by Allah that they went to the grave and it had a sweet smell (khushbu) to it. I make this declaration by Allah that I asked both those people to swear by Allah as to this being true. Further more people who have been to the grave of Maulana Musa of Jamia Asharafia who died and his grave gave kushbu seems to have the same smell as ghazis grave.

Any ways regarding Abdual Aziz making state within a state is in accurate. I had a discussion with a prominent mufti about it. He said the method was doubtful. Then I asked him that when you look at it, the lal masjid people never implement the hadud laws i.e. never gave sharia punishement. At most they did was do amar bil maruf wa nahi al munkar with power so how could that be wrong? And mufti said to me that when you put it that way, there was nothing wrong with their methodology.